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This is an HTML version of an attachment to the Open Public Records Act request 'Transcript of the July 2, 2018 meeting of the Zoning Board of Adjustment'.

1

1 ZONING BOARD
CITY OF CAMDEN
2
- - - -
3
Monday, July 2, 2018
4
- - - -
5

6 Transcript of proceedings in the above

7 matter taken in City Counsel Chambers, 2nd floor

8 City Hall, 520 Market Street, Camden, New Jersey

9 08101, commencing at 5:45 p.m.

10

11

12 B O A R D M E M B E R S P R E S E N T:

13 ROBERT H. HAMILTON, JR, CHAIRMAN
CHARLES COOPER
14 HENRIETTA WASHINGTON
THERESA ATWOOD
15 KAREN MERRICKS
MICHAEL JORDAN
16 FRANCHESCA ABED

17 - - - -
KYLE F. EINGORN,
18 ATTORNEY FOR THE BOARD
DENA MOORE JOHNSON, P.E., C.M.E.
19 REMINGTON & VERNICK ENGINEERS
EVITA DAVIS, PLANNING STAFF
20

21

22

23 Regine A. Ervin, CCR
Certified Court Reporter
24 370 Johnson Road
Sicklerville, New Jersey 08081
25 Email: [email address]


2

1

2 I N D E X

3 CASES HEARD: PAGE

4
1) JOSEPH SEWARD 7
5 1477 South 10th Street

6
2) LEO DRIVER 24
7 425 Cooper Street

8
3) MARIA E. DIAZ 42
9 1220 North 34th Street

10
4) PARKSIDE REDEVELOPMENT, LLC 45
11 Kenwood Avenue, Princess Avenue,
and Haddon Avenue
12

13 5) MARIA E. DIAZ 141
1220 North 34th Street
14

15 6) ADOPTION OF RESOLUTIONS 147

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25


3

1 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Good evening Ladies

2 and Gentlemen. In compliance with the Sunshine Law

3 of New Jersey, notice of the meeting was posted in

4 the Municipal Clerk's office on Tuesday, June 26,

5 2018.

6 MR. EINGORN: Again, welcome everybody.

7 We'll take a roll call of the members who are present

8 today. Chairman Hamilton.

9 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Present.

10 MR. EINGORN: Vice-chairman Hance. Not

11 present. Reverend Martinez. Also not present.

12 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Washington.

13 MS. WASHINGTON: Present.

14 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Atwood.

15 MS. ATWOOD: Present.

16 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Jordan.

17 MR. JORDAN: Here.

18 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Merricks I'm told may

19 be late. Mr. Cooper.

20 MR. COOPER: Here.

21 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Abed.

22 MS. ABED: Here.

23 MR. EINGORN: I will read the list. If

24 you're here, please raise your hands, speak up, let

25 us know that you're available for tonight's

4

1 meeting.

2 The first matter, Melvin Alvarez, 527

3 Vine Street. Is Melvin Alvarez here? Okay. Not

4 present.

5 Next matter, Kevin Mitchell, 521 Ferry

6 Avenue. Did Mr. Mitchell appear tonight?

7 The next matter on the agenda, Camden

8 Charitable Funding Project, LLC. Please note that

9 this has been adjourned to the September meeting.

10 There will be no further notice other than what you

11 hear tonight and at the successive meetings.

12 Following matter, Joseph Seward, 1477 S.

13 10th Street.

14 MR. SEWARD: Here.

15 MR. EINGORN: Good evening, sir.

16 Next matter, Deyanira Valenzuela, 705

17 North 2nd Street. Hearing none.

18 Next matter, Ronny C. Lopez, 412 to 414

19 Pine Street. Anybody here for Ronny C. Lopez? Not

20 here.

21 Leo Driver, 425 Cooper Street.

22 MR. JOHNSON: Here.

23 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Johnson, I saw you.

24 Next matter, Maria E. Diaz, 122 N. 34th Street.

25 MS. DIAZ: Here.

5

1 MR. EINGORN: Good evening.

2 Front Line Real Estate Solutions, LLC,

3 32 N. 24th Street. Anybody here for Front Line Real

4 Estate Solutions? None.

5 And I did see counsel for Parkside

6 Redevelopment.

7 MR. FLOYD: Present.

8 MR. EINGORN: Good evening, Counsel.

9 We do have one matter of business before

10 we get started tonight. We need a motion to appoint

11 our new Zoning Board Secretary, Ms. Evita Davis.

12 Congratulations. Do we have a motion?

13 MS. ATWOOD: Motion.

14 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Second.

15 MR. EINGORN: We'll take a roll-call vote

16 on the appointment. Chairman Hamilton.

17 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Yes.

18 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Washington.

19 MS. WASHINGTON: Yes.

20 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Atwood.

21 MS. ATWOOD: Yes.

22 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Jordan.

23 MR. JORDAN: Yes.

24 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Cooper.

25 MR. COOPER: Yes.

6

1 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Abed.

2 MS. ABED: Yes.

3 MR. EINGORN: Initially I need a motion

4 to deny Mr. Alvarez's application without prejudice

5 for failure to prosecute. He's failed to appear on

6 multiple occasions.

7 MS. ABED: Motion.

8 MR. COOPER: Second.

9 MR. EINGORN: I'll take a roll-call vote.

10 Chairman Hamilton.

11 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Yes.

12 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Washington.

13 MS. WASHINGTON: Yes

14 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Atwood.

15 MS. ATWOOD: Yes.

16 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Jordan.

17 MR. JORDAN: Yes.

18 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Cooper.

19 MR. COOPER: Yes.

20 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Abed.

21 MS. ABED: Yes.

22 MR. EINGORN: Thank you. Motion

23 passes.

24 Then the first matter on our agenda

25 tonight, Mr. Joseph Seward, 1477 S. 10th Street.

7

1 The appeal for zoning reads as follows:

2 The name of the applicant is Joseph Seward, 933

3 Fairmount Street, Camden, New Jersey. Property

4 location is 1477 S. 10th Street, Camden, New Jersey

5 in an R-2 Zone District. The lot has frontage of 20

6 feet on 10th Street and a depth of 69 feet.

7 The site is a vacant lot. The proposed

8 use is to install six storage containers. The units

9 will be placed on the existing surface. The zoning

10 officer denied the permit because the zoning area is

11 zoned residential. There are a number of storage

12 units on-street present. Mr. Seward if you could

13 raise your right hand to be sworn.

14 - - -

15 JOSEPH SEWARD, having been first duly

16 sworn/affirmed, was examined and testified as

17 follows:

18 - - -

19 MR. EINGORN: Please state your full

20 name, address for the record.

21 MR. SEWARD: My name is Joe Seward. My

22 address is 933 Fairmount Street, Camden, New Jersey.

23 MR. EINGORN: Please tell us about your

24 application.

25 MR. SEWARD: Six years ago you gave me

8

1 the opportunity to come before the Board and I had

2 asked to put some storage units in on Everett Street

3 which is right around the corner. And you gave me

4 the approval to put in 18 units. And since that

5 time, everyone has been full and kept on pressing me

6 to put in more units.

7 So what we've done, we had this building,

8 this was the building on 1477 S. 10th Street. We

9 knocked it down and it's vacant now. This is the

10 existing garage as you see right here. And what we

11 like to do is, we would like to put these six storage

12 units right up against this wall here. We have from

13 this point on all the way down to 9th Street is all

14 garages. So it's not that we're pushing anybody out

15 or anything. That whole one side of the street, I

16 guess, we control half of it and then the other half

17 is garages by other people.

18 That's what I would -- I think we really

19 present a big asset for Camden because what happens,

20 the fellows are able to use these units and who has

21 motorcycles, who may have small businesses,

22 carpenters, some guys that lay carpet, things like

23 that. And we keep them here in the City and it works

24 out very well.

25 MS. WASHINGTON: Mr. Seward, that's 10th

9

1 and what?

2 MR. SEWARD: 10th & Fairmount; right in

3 back of West Jersey Hospital.

4 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: The garage is right

5 there.

6 MR. SEWARD: Between 9th and 10th.

7 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Yeah.

8 MR. SEWARD: I think this gentleman right

9 here, if I remember six years ago, you were on the

10 Board here and you were the ones that voted and gave

11 the approval.

12 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I remember.

13 MR. SEWARD: And it's really been -- it's

14 an asset to the neighborhood. I think it'll increase

15 some of the property values in the area. Because the

16 property is well-kept and we police it every day.

17 MR. EINGORN: Let the record reflect that

18 the applicant by this gentleman, was pointing toward

19 Chairman Hamilton.

20 Mr. Seward, I'm looking at your

21 supplied -- did you draw this map?

22 MR. SEWARD: Yes.

23 MR. EINGORN: Can you tell me the

24 distance from the front or the openings of these

25 proposed garages to the sidewalk?

10

1 MR. SEWARD: It should be -- this is the

2 sidewalk here and they will be up against -- they

3 will up against the sidewalk as you see right here.

4 It's a six-foot sidewalk. And what I'm going to do

5 is, I'm going to take out this grass plot and I'm

6 going to concrete this from the edge of the unit all

7 the way down to the curb. So you're going to have to

8 cross the sidewalk in order to access the units?

9 MR. SEWARD: To get into the unit, you'll

10 have to cross the sidewalk, yes.

11 MS. ABED: Currently, is that a regular

12 curb? It's a regular six-inch curb?

13 MR. SEWARD: Yes. It's a regular --

14 MS. ABED: So it's not depressed in any

15 way, shape or form? It's not going to be a drive-up

16 type of unit?

17 MR. SEWARD: No. They'll be able to park

18 and just -- they will walk in. Most of them will

19 probably be storage units. Most of the people, they

20 like it for either storing clothing or what have you.

21 So it works out very, very well.

22 MS. WASHINGTON: But you mean anybody

23 can -- you rent it to stores?

24 MR. SEWARD: Yeah. Anybody.

25 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: It's nice. He keeps

11

1 it clean.

2 MR. SEWARD: Like I say, it will help the

3 neighborhood. It's going to do two things. It's

4 going to bring a lot more people. It will bring a

5 lot more people in onto the street itself which gives

6 a lot more security. So that's what we want is, more

7 security, more lighting. Because what I'm going to

8 do, there's a pole here. I'm going to shoot a light

9 across to light up these units here.

10 MS. WASHINGTON: How is that going to

11 bring more security?

12 MR. SEWARD: Because it's going to bring

13 a lot more people onto the street to use the units,

14 what have you. It's just going to create activity

15 and lights are really are a -- they're just a big

16 asset for us.

17 I've been in Camden for almost 30 years.

18 Like I said, we have lighting for our business and we

19 have other garages and all this activity just makes

20 it much safer because people are there.

21 MR. COOPER: Is that a residential house

22 that's right there, that building?

23 MR. SEWARD: This is a resident right

24 here. That's an existing home right there. And then

25 that's vacant on the other side of that home too.

12

1 MR. EINGORN: What would be on the side

2 of the street facing the openings of the garages?

3 MR. SEWARD: It's just another yard which

4 is about another 30-foot yard going from the sidewalk

5 to where the house would be.

6 MS. ABED: On the other ones that you got

7 approved for, how many units do you have?

8 MR. SEWARD: We had 18. We put up 18

9 units. And that was on Everett Street directly in

10 back of Fairmount Street.

11 MS. ABED: Do you have them all rented

12 out?

13 MR. SEWARD: Every one is rented out.

14 And they keep asking me, they would like to have more

15 units. So this is a good opportunity because we own

16 this house and we try to make some apartments out of

17 it but it just comes in so expensive, so we knocked

18 it down, I paved it and I painted it. So if I get

19 approval for these units, I can just put them up

20 against that wall and it will give a real nice

21 affect.

22 MS. ABED: These units are like prefab

23 units?

24 MR. SEWARD: They're prefab units,

25 yeah.

13

1 MS. ATWOOD: Is that the wall of a home

2 that you're building it against? What is that?

3 MR. SEWARD: No. This was an -- this is

4 an existing house up here.

5 MS. ATWOOD: The wall that you're

6 building it, attaching it to, what is that structure;

7 this picture, the first picture?

8 MR. SEWARD: This right here?

9 MS. ATWOOD: That's where you're going to

10 put it?

11 MR. SEWARD: Yes. I'm going to put it

12 right in this area.

13 MS. ATWOOD: So what wall is that?

14 MR. SEWARD: That's this wall right here.

15 MS. ATWOOD: But is it attached to a home

16 I'm asking you?

17 MR. SEWARD: Yes, it is attached to a

18 home, yes.

19 MS. ATWOOD: And the person that lives

20 there has no objection?

21 MR. SEWARD: She has none whatsoever.

22 She was very happy when we knocked it down. Like I

23 said, it gives her a lot of activity because there

24 will be a lot more people coming, walking around

25 going into the units.

14

1 MR. EINGORN: To the extent that

2 somebody's going to load and unload, it doesn't seem

3 like they have a lot of space really to operate in

4 front of the unit. Are they going to be in the

5 street? I'm a little concerned that will be a tough

6 area for them.

7 MR. SEWARD: They'll probably park on

8 this side of the -- this here will all be open here.

9 They'll be able to park here and just walk over to

10 the units.

11 MS. WASHINGTON: Park where?

12 MR. SEWARD: Right against the curb?

13 MS. WASHINGTON: Which street is that?

14 MR. SEWARD: On Fairmount Street.

15 MR. COOPER: Is there any way we can get

16 pictures of the parking and the access to the

17 buildings? Because we don't want to mess up the

18 ease-way traffic going down the streets. You got

19 the trucks out there unloading into the garage that

20 may be blocking the street. The street may not be

21 wide enough to handle that.

22 MR. SEWARD: Well, I can still have --

23 we'll probably have about 15. If somebody is parking

24 up against the curb, they'll probably have from their

25 car to the curb across the street, about 15 foot.

15

1 MR. EINGORN: I mean, when you have a

2 normal residential home that's up against the

3 sidewalk, the activity to it from the home is usually

4 very limited in that it's people coming in and out.

5 And there's generally a small car.

6 This is a storage unit that might have

7 regular traffic with large trucks. And off-site

8 traffic concerns are something that affect the use

9 variance. So to the extent that you're going to have

10 loading and unloading in an area that's not designed

11 for it, I think the concerns

12 that you may be impacting the traffic flow on what is

13 now Fairmount Street.

14 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: There's not a lot of

15 traffic going down there. He's got his garages to

16 pull in and back out of. Landscapers put their stuff

17 in there and move on. Somebody else I think got --

18 MR. SEWARD: My fellows with motorcycles.

19 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Yeah, motorcycles.

20 MR. SEWARD: That will be the next thing.

21 Probably about five or six of my units are all filled

22 with motorcycles. And they've asked me to take one

23 or two units if I can get the approval to put them

24 up.

25 MR. EINGORN: I understand. But you got

16

1 to remember that this is something that lasts, right?

2 So to the extent that Mr. Seward decides to sell this

3 project and it may be in great shape and it may be

4 perfect, but the next guy, he may rent it out to

5 somebody who is constantly in and out of there with

6 trucks and things like that. So it's just not

7 about today.

8 MR. SEWARD: Let me just say this. This

9 is a family-run business. This is my partner here.

10 And when I step out of this picture, her and my son

11 will be operating this unit. So I would say -- I'm

12 going to say maybe for another 20 years we're

13 definitely going to be here in Camden. I may not be

14 here but she will.

15 MR. EINGORN: If you want to say

16 something, you need to be sworn. Please come forward

17 to be sworn. Please raise your right hand.

18 - - -

19 RITA HUGHES, having been first duly

20 sworn/affirmed, was examined and testified as

21 follows:

22 - - -

23 MR. EINGORN: Please state your full name

24 and address for the record.

25 MS. HUGHES: My name is Rita Hughes.

17

1 Just to let you know, this unit here is a current

2 garage. And next to this down the street are another

3 I guess maybe -- there's four more garages or six

4 more garages that face the street. And then as you

5 turn in the driveway, there's more garages inside the

6 driveway.

7 So there currently are several units as

8 you go up the street that come up to here.

9 MR. EINGORN: Okay. That was my

10 question.

11 MS. HUGHES: Yes. So we wouldn't go any

12 further other than any of the existing garages are.

13 But there are several more units up. And usually

14 what people do is, on this side of the street, and I

15 don't have a picture, at the very corner there's an

16 empty lot and there's a house on 10th Street.

17 And next to that is a big open lot that

18 we own. And lot of our employees park on there. So

19 there aren't any houses on that side of the street so

20 there's usually not many people parked there. And a

21 lot of your customers that rent here, will come in,

22 park for 15 minutes, take their stuff out of the

23 garage or whatever and then they move on.

24 MS. WASHINGTON: But you can't always say

25 how long a person is going to be there.

18

1 MS. HUGHES: No. You are correct about

2 that. You cannot. You are correct.

3 MS. WASHINGTON: You can't say I'll be 15

4 minutes; I might be an hour.

5 MS. HUGHES: Right.

6 MS. WASHINGTON: And I'm stopping him

7 from getting in there.

8 MS. HUGHES: Right. You are correct.

9 MR. COOPER: I would like to see more

10 pictures of that area.

11 MS. HUGHES: Of the whole street?

12 MR. COOPER: Yes. Because right now --

13 MR. EINGORN: Can you please turn your

14 cell phones off.

15 MR. COOPER: These are small photos that

16 you're giving us. Then you're saying down the street

17 is more garages. If I can get more pictures of

18 what's going on in the neighborhood.

19 MS. HUGHES: On the whole street?

20 MR. COOPER: Yes.

21 MS. HUGHES: Yes, we can do that for

22 you.

23 MR. EINGORN: Just a couple more quick

24 questions. The units, the ones on the bottom

25 righthand corner, are those pre-existing units?

19

1 MS. HUGHES: These are the units that we

2 built on Everett Street. They are prefabricated. We

3 are going to put the same type of a unit in there.

4 We just show that picture so you have an idea of it.

5 MR. EINGORN: That's great. So the

6 drainage that runs off the roof, the run-off, right,

7 so when it rains, how does the water get from the top

8 of the unit to the ground?

9 MR. SEWARD: What we're going to do is,

10 we're going to run the gutter, drop it down. And

11 what I'm going to do is, I'm going to put a flow well

12 here in the sidewalk so that water will just, from

13 the drainage coming off the roof of the units, will

14 just go down into the ground and then into this flow

15 well which will disperse. Because I don't want to

16 dump the water on the sidewalk in the winter months

17 that could freeze. Somebody can slip and fall and

18 then I have a problem.

19 But by putting the flow-well in the

20 center of the sidewalk with just a breathing cap in

21 the center of it, that will just go down and disburse

22 into the soil. We do that all the time. In the

23 course of our work, we do a lot of drainage work and

24 we use these flow wells. So that's what I'm going to

25 put into here.

20

1 MS. ABED: With the extent to the

2 traffic, I think if anything, Everett Street would

3 have more of an issue with traffic because it's a

4 busier street. Fairmount is very desolate in the

5 sense of that. But with the extent of the water, you

6 definitely raised some concerns there. I don't know

7 that the flow well would be approved in any way,

8 shape or form. I would think that you would have to

9 run that by somebody, but that does run a little bit

10 of a risk because it's six structures.

11 MS. HUGHES: Six structures, yes.

12 MS. ABED: Do you have an idea of the

13 square footage of the roof on that?

14 MR. SEWARD: Like I said, it will be 20

15 by 60, so about 1,800 square feet.

16 MS. ABED: That's a lot of water.

17 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: You said 1,800 square

18 feet?

19 MR. SEWARD: About 1,800 square feet.

20 MR. EINGORN: You zipped your lips. This

21 is your line of expertise?

22 MS. MOORE: I'm here to represent the

23 site work project that's coming up.

24 MR. EINGORN: Okay.

25 MS. MOORE: Sorry. I didn't have a

21

1 chance to review this project at all.

2 MR. EINGORN: I understand.

3 MR. SEWARD: Because I don't want to

4 spill water on grade.

5 MS. ABED: No. That --

6 MR. SEWARD: Only for the fact that we

7 have property and we know that people slip and fall

8 and then we're going to be subject to some kind of

9 lawsuit. So this way here with the flow well that

10 water -- it would become not environmentally friendly

11 because you're just disbursing it back into the group

12 again.

13 MS. MOORE: There's no grass area?

14 MR. SEWARD: No, there's no grass area.

15 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: No grass. Cement.

16 MS. HUGHES: It's a sidewalk.

17 MR. EINGORN: I think the question was

18 getting more pictures. Mr. Cooper would like more

19 pictures and Ms. Washington echoes that. So if we

20 can adjourn you to next month so that we can see --

21 we need pictures of the units next door, photographs

22 of what's across the street because you're proposing

23 new lighting and your application requires site

24 plan.

25 So the lighting and the drainage issues

22

1 are two big issues because I can't see where you're

2 going to be shining the light onto it or whether or

3 not it's going to affect anybody across the street.

4 So we need pictures of the units down the street, the

5 lighting across the street or how you're planning to

6 see what's going on there. And then we need an idea

7 of whether this drainage is going to be effective for

8 this street. I don't know what's under that sidewalk

9 and whether you can even dig there. I see a couple

10 manhole covers on the top left picture.

11 MR. SEWARD: I can dig there because --

12 MR. EINGORN: I know.

13 MR. SEWARD: I've had to do some work on

14 it. When we put these flow wells in, what we do is,

15 we'll put about six inches of stone around it so that

16 water will percolate back into the ground again.

17 That's what we'll do. We'll get that information.

18 MR. EINGORN: I think we're probably

19 going to have to ask the --

20 MS. MOORE: Site plan approval.

21 MS. ABED: That was one of the reasons

22 for denial too, right, from Dr. Williams, site plan

23 approval?

24 MR. EINGORN: Right.

25 MS. ABED: So we still have the use issue

23

1 and then the site plan approval. With regard of use,

2 we should probably adjourn until next month and just

3 come back with more pictures.

4 MS. HUGHES: Okay.

5 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: You'll bring some

6 pictures?

7 MS. HUGHES: Yes, we'll bring them of the

8 whole street. Thank you.

9 MR. EINGORN: Thank you so much. We

10 appreciate your time. Mr. Seward, the next meeting

11 is August 6th.

12 MR. SEWARD: Okay. I'll be there.

13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can I ask a

14 question, please? He's contracting this work. Is he

15 required to use Camden workers also?

16 MR. EINGORN: No, that's not a

17 requirement for doing work in Camden.

18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: If you're talking

19 about improving the district and improving the

20 neighborhood, how come he's not required to use

21 Camden workers? That's part of the approval, right?

22 Is he a contractor? My name is John.

23 MR. EINGORN: That's fine. I don't know

24 whether or not he's a contractor but this has already

25 been adjourned until next month. If you want to ask

24

1 those questions --

2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I will sure to be

3 here next month.

4 MR. EINGORN: Okay. The next matter, Leo

5 Driver, 425 Cooper Street. The applicant and counsel

6 can please come forward.

7 MR. JOHNSON: Good evening.

8 MR. EINGORN: Good evening. My name is

9 Harvey C. Johnson. I'm here on behalf of Mr. Leo

10 Driver. Mr. Driver has a property at 425 Cooper

11 Street. When he purchased it, it had five apartments

12 and he'd like to continue to use it as five

13 apartments but I think the zoning allows him two at

14 this point in time.

15 (Ms. Merricks arrives to the meeting).

16 MR. JOHNSON: I'll start out again. My

17 name is Harvey Johnson. I'm here on behalf of Mr.

18 Leo Driver. He has an apartment complex at 425

19 Cooper Street here in Camden. It's right next to

20 Rutgers University.

21 When he purchased the apartment complex

22 it had five units. But the officials here said it's

23 only licensed for two. So we're here for a variance

24 to get it approved to five apartments. And the other

25 requirement is off-street parking. And you'll hear

25

1 testimony indicating that there's parking surrounding

2 the entire building on both sides. And there's a big

3 parking lot across the street that used to be, I

4 think it's called Camden Hotel which they torn down

5 recently.

6 In addition to that, you'll hear

7 testimony that indicates that this probably is one of

8 the few places in Camden County where you don't need

9 a car. It is close to the Walter Rand Transportation

10 Complex. It's within walking distance of walking to

11 Philadelphia, if you wanted to do that by crossing

12 the bridge and certainly Rutgers has parking. And

13 Mr. Driver will point out parking that's in the area.

14 We've given a list of exhibits to your attorney and

15 to your Zoning Board Secretary. At this time, if we

16 could, we'd like to have Mr. Driver sworn in,

17 please.

18 - - -

19 LEO DRIVER, having been first duly

20 sworn/affirmed, was examined and testified as

21 follows:

22 - - -

23 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please state your

24 full name and address for the record.

25 MR. DRIVER: Leo Driver, 404 W. Maple

26

1 Avenue, Merchantville, New Jersey.

2 MR. JOHNSON: Mr. Driver, using Exhibit

3 No. 2, can you just describe where the building is,

4 please?

5 MR. DRIVER: The building is two

6 structures in off of 5th Street and Cooper.

7 MR. JOHNSON: And that's right adjacent

8 to Rutgers University; is it not?

9 MR. DRIVER: Yes.

10 MR. JOHNSON: When you purchased the

11 building, how many apartments did you understand it

12 to have?

13 MR. DRIVER: When I purchased the

14 building, it was five units; it was five units

15 occupied. It was completely leased out to Dooley

16 House, which at this point currently went under.

17 They had some issues so that organization closed down

18 the rental portion.

19 At that point, I did a few upgrades and

20 then I went to upgrade some of the plumbing in the

21 building because it was old when the people got out.

22 And I went and applied for the occupancy permit

23 again. Then I was notified by one of the officials,

24 Mr. Williams, it was listed as a two or three-family,

25 something like that; that it wasn't appropriately a

27

1 five-family.

2 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: You bought it has a

3 five?

4 MR. DRIVER: But I bought it as a

5 five-family. It has always been five different

6 families living in there. Each unit has its own

7 entrance and emergency exit. Each unit has a

8 bedroom, a bathroom, a livingroom.

9 MR. JOHNSON: Mr. Chairman, I'm just

10 putting up what I've given to you each, the secretary

11 and the attorney, what are exhibits. I think it's 10

12 and 11 which show the interiors of two of the

13 apartments. He can pass the pictures around so people

14 can see them. But you can see that he's done very

15 fine work in the kitchen. And all five units are

16 very spacious.

17 MR. COOPER: Do you have five separate

18 meters?

19 MR. DRIVER: I have five separate meters.

20 I have five separate electric meters and gas meters

21 as well.

22 MR. JOHNSON: This is what I think we've

23 marked as Exhibit No. 2. Could you describe what it

24 is, please?

25 MR. DRIVER: The green highlighted areas,

28

1 the dark green highlighted areas are areas which are

2 within one like maybe a quarter of a block of the

3 apartment where you can actually park your car

4 throughout the day and the night. Some areas are

5 metered and some areas are just labeled as

6 residential parking. Currently because I think I'm

7 like the only resident in that area close to 5th,

8 that they're not being used. The parking pretty much

9 just stays available all day and all night long.

10 MR. JOHNSON: Is parking available on the

11 street, right on Cooper Street on both sides?

12 MR. DRIVER: Yes.

13 MR. JOHNSON: And is parking available in

14 back of this unit on Lawrence Street?

15 MR. DRIVER: Yes.

16 MR. JOHNSON: And is that parking

17 available?

18 MR. DRIVER: Yes. Right here this

19 picture is my vehicle and it's just showing you

20 that --

21 MR. JOHNSON: That is Exhibit No. 5.

22 MR. EINGORN: Could you actually move

23 that back a little because I don't think Ms. Merricks

24 and Ms. Atwood can see the board.

25 MR. JOHNSON: What you were saying is,

29

1 this is Exhibit No. 5 and it shows that there's

2 parking in back of the units on Lawrence Street.

3 This shows where the unit is on Cooper Street and

4 there's parking on both sides of Cooper Street.

5 MS. ATWOOD: That's three?

6 MR. JOHNSON: On No. 2.

7 MS. ATWOOD: Okay.

8 MR. JOHNSON: And is there another

9 parking lot across the street on 4th Street?

10 MR. DRIVER: There's a parking lot also

11 on -- there's actually -- yeah, there's a parking lot

12 on 5th Street right across the street where the old

13 hotel used to be. That's rented parking. I believe

14 there's some type of parking. I'm not sure what's in

15 the back of the building. Maybe the students use

16 that or whatever.

17 MS. WASHINGTON: When you say across the

18 street?

19 MR. DRIVER: Directly across the

20 street.

21 MS. WASHINGTON: You have to pay? You

22 have to pay for that parking?

23 MR. DRIVER: Yeah, you have to pay.

24 MS. WASHINGTON: And there's not always a

25 parking space on Cooper Street during the daytime.

30

1 MR. DRIVER: During the daytime, there's

2 not always a parking space on Cooper Street. But on

3 Lawrence Street which is the street that runs --

4 that's literally at the backyard of the building and

5 runs parallel to Cooper Street. There's always

6 parking. In the picture you see during the daytime,

7 that was taken during the week, there's always

8 available parking there. And it says, residents

9 only.

10 MS. WASHINGTON: Anybody that lives

11 there, they're not happy if they got pay $5.00 for a

12 half an hour.

13 MR. DRIVER: The people that currently

14 live there, they can pay the meter by phone. So

15 whenever they're there during the daytime, they

16 usually pay the meter by phone or they park

17 inside.

18 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Chair, if you can swear

19 in our engineer.

20 - - -

21 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please raises your

22 right hand.

23 DENA MOORE JOHNSON, P.E., C.M.E., having

24 been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

25 follows:

31

1 - - -

2 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please state your

3 name and affiliation for the record.

4 MS. MOORE: Dena Moore Johnson, Remington

5 & Vernick Engineers.

6 MR. EINGORN: Let the record reflect that

7 Ms. Merricks did arrive prior to the application.

8 So just to recap here, the applicant is

9 testifying as to the parking because he requires a

10 bulk variance. It doesn't seem to be here that any

11 use variances are required but that --

12 MR. JOHNSON: He has a use variance in

13 terms of number of units.

14 MR. EINGORN: I'm looking at the Zoning

15 Permit Denial. And it seems to me that the only

16 issue listed by Dr. Williams was the off-street

17 parking.

18 MR. JOHNSON: No. Off-street parking

19 and he said that we needed a bulk variance for the

20 additional three units even though they were there

21 previously. So I think we need two bulk variances is

22 what I'm trying to say. And it's our position that

23 there is sufficient parking on Cooper Street and

24 there's parking in the rear on Lawrence Street which

25 is restricted just to that neighborhood.

32

1 MR. EINGORN: Since you've owned this

2 property, have you had every unit occupied

3 continuously?

4 MR. DRIVER: Yes. I've had every unit

5 occupied up until about last year when basically the

6 Dooley House Program had gotten everybody out and

7 then basically I had like two units occupied right

8 now. I actually wanted to do some upgrades to the

9 building. That's how I came across...

10 MR. EINGORN: You had no parking issues

11 when you had them placed for --

12 MR. DRIVER: No. Honestly speaking, a

13 lot of the people that rent are used to college-city

14 living so some of them are students that are renting

15 right now. And another person that just gets on a

16 train and goes right into Philly from there.

17 MR. EINGORN: Does the Board have any

18 questions for the applicant?

19 MS. ABED: Is there like a standard that

20 we are required per unit to have on the parking spot?

21 Do you know what I'm saying? Is there like a number

22 that was supposed to be a part of that?

23 MR. EINGORN: It's not listed in Dr.

24 Williams' letter.

25 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: When you bought that,

33

1 it was five units, right?

2 MR. DRIVER: Yes.

3 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Then you got it.

4 You're only going to have three?

5 MR. JOHNSON: When he purchased it, I

6 understand it, Dooley House was there and they were

7 five units. So it was two on the first floor; two on

8 the second one; and one on the third floor. And then

9 Dooley House left.

10 MR. DRIVER: Then, yeah, they were the

11 main tenants from the previous and they remained my

12 tenants as well for a numerous amount of years. And

13 then the program kind of just had a downside.

14 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I'm just trying to

15 figure, when they moved, how come you only have

16 three?

17 MR. DRIVER: In the middle -- once they

18 moved, I took the opportunity to just make some minor

19 upgrades to the property and then I -- and it took me

20 a little while because I had to pay for a lot of

21 stuff out-of-pocket or whatever. So I was able to do

22 two units and move two people right back in.

23 And then at that time, I was aware that I

24 needed to apply for the occupancy certificate. And

25 when I went to do that, they were -- there were some

34

1 discrepancies here because it's stated that the

2 occupancy was only three apartments. And I was like,

3 this has to be crazy. I mean, that doesn't really

4 make any sense because it was five units before I

5 even took it over for a numerous amount of years as

6 well. Their meters are all in place. The fire

7 system is all in place. Everything is all in place.

8 It's basically based for five units. So they told

9 me --

10 MR. JOHNSON: When he purchased it, it

11 was five units.

12 MR. DRIVER: Yes. So pretty much -- I

13 guess this is why I made the process, the next thing

14 I have to do.

15 MR. EINGORN: Any more questions?

16 MS. ABED: Do we have any pictures of the

17 property?

18 MR. JOHNSON: There are several

19 pictures. And we've also submitted a site plan --

20 not a site plan but a plan of the property showing

21 the five units as-built as they were when we

22 purchased the property.

23 MS. MOORE: Since I'm here, can I ask a

24 question?

25 MR. EINGORN: Yes.

35

1 MS. MOORE: According to residential site

2 improvement standards, how many parking spaces should

3 you have for this if you are to get the use variance?

4 MR. JOHNSON: I think it best, two per

5 unit.

6 MS. MOORE: Do you have set designated

7 spots at all, an agreement with anybody for parking

8 should it be needed?

9 MR. DRIVER: I mean honestly speaking,

10 the units are pretty small. They're one bedroom

11 units. They can be as little as one per unit as

12 well. The back street shows Lawrence Street which

13 states residential parking. I believe you can park

14 at least 12 cars back there. Currently no one parks

15 back there.

16 MR. JOHNSON: Particularly at night.

17 MS. ABED: That would be like the permit

18 parking, correct?

19 MR. DRIVER: Yes.

20 MS. ABED: So you would go like to a --

21 MR. DRIVER: I mean, honestly --

22 MS. ABED: I just want to make sure what

23 you were --

24 MR. DRIVER: One resident has a car and

25 one doesn't.

36

1 MS. MOORE: But then, not assuming who is

2 in there now, I'm saying for the future. So then do

3 you have any type of an agreement for your units if

4 you are to get the use approved, that your unit would

5 have designated spots in that area from the parking?

6 MR. JOHNSON: It's not the Parking

7 Authority. It's the City. It's a City street.

8 MR. DRIVER: Honestly, I'll be very

9 honest. I don't rent with the intentions of telling

10 the tenants that they should have parking spaces

11 within a one to two fare zone. Like if they want to

12 have a parking space, I believe that that's part of

13 why this needs to happen. But most of them in the

14 past didn't require a parking space. I had one --

15 probably since 2007, I only had one person that

16 actually had a car.

17 MS. ABED: Is this Lawrence?

18 MR. DRIVER: Yeah.

19 MR. JOHNSON: That's directly in the back

20 of building.

21 MR. EINGORN: And you are aware that the

22 City does charge a fee up to and I can't remember the

23 number per spot.

24 MR. DRIVER: Twenty-five dollars,

25 something like that, right?

37

1 MR. EINGORN: If you obtain a waiver of

2 the parking requirements, you can be assessed a fee

3 for each parking spot for which you needed for which

4 was waived.

5 MS. MOORE: He's referring to the

6 parking variance which I know you're aware of. The

7 City Engineer does a calculation where you're not

8 able to provide the amount of parking spaces that

9 it's actually calculated that you would pay and

10 contribute to the overall parking variance fee, which

11 has been calculated by the City Engineer as

12 approximately $6,000 per space.

13 MR. JOHNSON: We're asking for a waiver.

14 MS. MOORE: According to the ordinance

15 now, there is no set precedence for a waiver of that.

16 MR. JOHNSON: I think we've had testimony

17 that there are parking spaces in back of the property

18 along Lawrence Street restricted to the people living

19 in that area.

20 MS. MOORE: It is restricted?

21 MR. JOHNSON: Yes, it says, residents

22 only.

23 MR. DRIVER: Yes. It says residents

24 only.

25 MR. JOHNSON: There's a big sign.

38

1 MS. MOORE: Right. I get that. It's

2 just that it's restricted but then how many people is

3 it restricted to?

4 MR. DRIVER: I mean, honestly, at this

5 point of the day, I'm the only person on that street

6 between I believe, if I'm not mistaken, 3rd and 6th

7 Street that actually has a residential tenant living

8 there.

9 MR. JOHNSON: Everybody else is Rutgers.

10 MR. DRIVER: And Lawrence spans 3rd to

11 6th Street as well.

12 MS. MOORE: I'm only asking a question on

13 behalf of -- for the zoning.

14 MR. EINGORN: Does the Board have any

15 further questions for the applicant?

16 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: At this time, we'll

17 open it up to the public. Anybody in the audience

18 for or against; anybody for or against; anybody for

19 or against?

20 MS. WILLIAMS: I'm for it.

21 - - -

22 MR. EINGORN: Please come forward to be

23 sworn. Please raise your right hand.

24 - - -

25 LAVERN WILLIAMS, having been first duly

39

1 sworn/affirmed, was examined and testified as

2 follows:

3 - - -

4 MS. WILLIAMS: 655 Park Blvd, Camden.

5 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Are you for it or

6 against?

7 MS. WILLIAMS: I'm for it.

8 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you very much.

9 MR. EINGORN: We need a discussion of the

10 positive and negative criteria related to this

11 application. Then we'll need a motion.

12 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I think it's positive

13 because when he bought it, he bought it for the five.

14 If they had told him two or three, he probably

15 wouldn't have bought it. There ain't nothing like

16 that in the City. You know what I mean? He had no

17 problem. I think it's positive for the people who

18 need a place in the City.

19 MR. EINGORN: Any other Board members

20 want to discuss the positive and negative criteria?

21 MS. ATWOOD: I think it's a good area for

22 Rutgers students to find a place to live. I used to

23 live in that vicinity myself.

24 MR. EINGORN: If there's no further

25 discussion, we'll entertain a motion. The applicant

40

1 is requesting variances related to the additional

2 apartments as well as the parking.

3 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I so move that it be

4 granted.

5 MR. EINGORN: We have a motion to grant

6 the application. Do we have a second?

7 MS. ATWOOD: Second.

8 MR. EINGORN: We'll take a roll-call

9 vote.

10 MR. COOPER: Are we doing both of the

11 variances together?

12 MR. EINGORN: Yes. We'll do both at the

13 same time unless you want to do them separately.

14 MR. COOPER: Just the parking I have a

15 little issue with.

16 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: There's only

17 one car back there.

18 MS. WASHINGTON: You're telling me there

19 one car? There's five people living in the

20 apartment and only one person got a car?

21 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: That's it.

22 MS. WASHINGTON: No.

23 MR. EINGORN: I think the testimony is

24 that right now there's only one car but not all of

25 the apartments are occupied yet.

41

1 MR. JOHNSON: But it is an area where one

2 could live without having a car.

3 MS. WASHINGTON: How many apartments are

4 empty?

5 MR. DRIVER: Three apartments are empty

6 right now.

7 MS. WASHINGTON: So you only have two?

8 MR. DRIVER: Yeah. The modification is

9 that there was plumbing which required this part of

10 the zoning to get approved for five tenants and rent

11 them back out again.

12 MS. WASHINGTON: And when somebody else

13 moves in, you're not going to know if they got a car

14 or not, right?

15 MR. DRIVER: Honestly speaking, it's a

16 very comfortable area. I get a lot of younger adults

17 who are requesting --

18 MS. WASHINGTON: College students.

19 MR. DRIVER: -- and they usually don't

20 come with a car. Like I did state, in the back of

21 Lawrence Street, there's well over 15 car spaces

22 there. And when you guys leave tonight, just drive

23 by there. It's right down the street like walking

24 distance. You check it out.

25 MR. EINGORN: We do have a motion to

42

1 approve on the table and a second. Are we ready to

2 vote? Chairman Hamilton.

3 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Yes.

4 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Washington.

5 MS. WASHINGTON: Yes.

6 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Atwood.

7 MS. ATWOOD: Yes.

8 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Jordan.

9 MR. JORDAN: Yes.

10 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Merricks.

11 MS. MERRICKS: Yes.

12 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Cooper.

13 MR. COOPER: Yes.

14 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Abed.

15 MS. ABED: Yes.

16 MR. EINGORN: Congratulations.

17 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you very much.

18 MR. DRIVER: Thank you.

19 MR. EINGORN: The next matter: Maria E.

20 Diaz, 1220 N. 34th Street. Please come forward.

21 Let me read the appeal for zoning and

22 then we'll swear you in. Are you the applicant?

23 MS. DIAZ: Yes.

24 MR. EINGORN: This is your application,

25 ma'am?

43

1 MS. DIAZ: Yes.

2 MR. EINGORN: You want a gazbeo?

3 MS. DIAZ: Yes.

4 MR. EINGORN: You're going to stand at

5 the podium. The appeal for zoning reads as follows.

6 The name of the applicant is Maria Diaz, 1220 North

7 34th Street, Camden, New Jersey. The property

8 location is 1220 North 34th Street, Camden, New

9 Jersey in the R-2 zoning district.

10 The lot has frontage of 40 feet and a

11 depth of 100 feet. There's two buildings on the

12 lot, a main building and a garage. It's her primary

13 residence and she's proposing a gazebo/porch. The

14 zoning officer denied a permit because the sideyard

15 setbacks are deficient to leave space between the

16 neighbor's fence and the gazebo.

17 The appeal is made to the zoning -- it

18 was made under the zoning ordinance to permit

19 construction of a wooden gazebo. And the reasons why

20 the appeal should be granted is, the applicant will

21 move the gazebo and separate it three feet from the

22 neighbor's yard.

23 Are you Ms. Diaz?

24 MS. DIAZ: Yes.

25 MR. EINGORN: Please come forward to be

44

1 sworn.

2 MS. ABED: Kyle, this is going to be an

3 issue for interpretation. I'm just putting it out

4 there. I don't want it to be an issue later on.

5 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Let me swear her in

6 first. Please raise your right hand.

7 - - -

8 MARIA E. DIAZ, having been first duly

9 sworn/affirmed, was examined and testified as

10 follows:

11 - - -

12 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please state your

13 full name and address for the record.

14 MS. ABED: I just explained to her that I

15 just want to make sure that she doesn't get confused

16 and then later on if there's an issue.

17 MR. EINGORN: I would ask that you come

18 back with someone who could interpret for you.

19 Obviously you can't as a member of the Board.

20 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: A conflict of

21 interest for you.

22 MS. ABED: Can we table her to a little

23 bit later on because she's waiting for on somebody to

24 come to talk for her.

25 MR. EINGORN: Absolutely.

45

1 MS. DIAZ: Thank you.

2 MR. EINGORN: Let the record reflect that

3 we'll come back to Ms. Diaz's application, hoping

4 that an interpreter will arrive. Which brings us to

5 Parkside Redevelopment, LLC. Please come forward.

6 Mr. Floyd, are you ready?

7 MR. FLOYD: Yes. Good evening, for the

8 record, Michael Floyd with Archer & Greiner appearing

9 on behalf of the applicant --

10 MR. EINGORN: Please turn the phones off.

11 MR. FLOYD: Good evening Mr. Chairman and

12 Members of the Board. My name is Michael Floyd. I'm

13 an attorney with Archer & Greiner and I'm appearing

14 on behalf of the applicant this evening, Parkside

15 Redevelopment, LLC which has submitted an application

16 for use variance approval, bulk variance approval and

17 preliminary and major site plan approval. We are not

18 seeking final site plan approval at this time; just

19 preliminary site plan approval.

20 With me this evening, we do have several

21 fact witnesses and expert witnesses that will be

22 providing testimony about this proposed development

23 that's going to provide quality, affordable housing

24 in the Parkside neighborhood. With me this evening

25 we have Bridget Phifer, Christopher Gigliotti, Paul

46

1 Witthohn, Jim Haley and James Kyle. And I would just

2 ask as a housekeeping matter right now since they

3 will all be providing testimony, if we can have them

4 sworn at this time.

5 MR. EINGORN: Please come forward to be

6 sworn. Please raise your right hands.

7 - - -

8 PAUL WITTHOHN, P.E., JAMES KYLE, P.P.,

9 ACIP; JAMES HALEY, R.A., LEED AICP; BRIDGET PHIFER,

10 CHRISTOPHER GIGLIOTTI, having been first duly

11 sworn/affirmed, was examined and testified as

12 follows:

13 - - -

14 MR. EINGORN: Please state your full

15 name, address and affiliation for the record.

16 MR. KYLE: James Kyle, professional

17 planner of planning and design.

18 MR. HALEY: James Haley, registered

19 architect from Haley Donovan.

20 MR. GIGLIOTTI: Chris Gigliotti,

21 Cornerstone Community Partners and Parkside

22 Redevelopment.

23 MS. PHIFER: Bridget Phifer, executive

24 director of Parkside Business Community &

25 Partnership.

47

1 MR. WITTHOHN: Paul Witthohn, project

2 manager with Consulting Engineer Services.

3 MR. FLOYD: One other housekeeping

4 matter, Mr. Witthohn just learned that he's a

5 professional engineer in the State of New Jersey.

6 He's testified before planning boards and zoning

7 boards throughout the state. I would ask that he be

8 qualified as an expert or he can put his credentials

9 on the record.

10 Likewise, Jim Haley is a licensed

11 architect in the State of New Jersey Certified LEED

12 Architect as well. I would ask that he put his

13 credentials on the record or, again, be recognized as

14 an expert in the field of architecture. And lastly,

15 Jim Kyle is a licensed professional planner with his

16 AICP designation. He's testified before this Board

17 and many other boards through the state. Again, I

18 would ask that he be recognized as an expert in the

19 field of planning or that he put his credentials on

20 the record.

21 MR. EINGORN: Would you like to have them

22 put their credentials on the record now or as they

23 come up to testify?

24 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: When they come up to

25 testify.

48

1 MR. EINGORN: Okay, that's fine. If they

2 could just put their credentials on the record before

3 their testimony, that would be great.

4 MR. FLOYD: Thank you. We also have one

5 other housekeeping matter, several exhibits this

6 evening that our witnesses will be presenting.

7 Exhibit A1, it's going to be an aerial photograph of

8 the property and the surrounding uses, the road

9 networks so you can familiarize yourself with the

10 property and this proposed development and how it's

11 going to fit into the neighborhood.

12 Exhibit A2 is a rendered site plan of the

13 project's new homes along Princess Avenue and Kenwood

14 Avenue. Exhibit A3 is a rendered site plan for the

15 new homes along Kenwood Avenue. And then Exhibit A4

16 is a rendered site plan of the multi-family project

17 along Haddon Avenue and Whitman Avenue. And Exhibit

18 A5 is a rendered site plan of a new multi-family

19 structure along Haddon Avenue as well. Then Exhibit

20 A6 contains six sheets with the architectural

21 drawings and renderings of the proposed buildings.

22 What I'd like to do right now in the

23 interest of time is have Bridget Phifer come up and

24 just provide a brief overview for the Board about

25 this project and the neighborhood input and what

49

1 we're looking to do.

2 MS. PHIFER: If it's okay, I would also

3 like at this time for residents from Parkside from

4 Kenwood Avenue, from Haddon Avenue, from Princess

5 Avenue to stand in support of the project to please

6 stand because they're standing with me as I stand at

7 the microphone this evening. If you would, please

8 stand. Thank you.

9 MR. EINGORN: Let the record reflect that

10 there's a multitude of people on the other side of

11 the room in request of the applicant.

12 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Yeah.

13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: How about me?

14 MS. PHIFER: And I asked that for a very

15 specific reason that many of those people may not --

16 MR. EINGORN: There will be a public

17 portion where everybody will have a chance to speak.

18 If you can give the applicant the respect and the

19 time to let them speak and they'll give you the same

20 kind of respect when it's your turn to speak. Thank

21 you.

22 MS. PHIFER: And I ask that for a very

23 specific reason because many of those people may not

24 want to venture up to the microphone to speak out for

25 the project and/or they may not have the courage to

50

1 come to the microphone. So that's the reason why I

2 asked for that opportunity.

3 As I said, I'm Bridget Phifer, executive

4 director of Parkside Business. I've served in that

5 capacity for well over 15 years. Our goal has been

6 and continues to be to bring about and advance to a

7 better quality of life for Parkside residents.

8 We completed a neighborhood strategic

9 planning process in March of 2017. The project that

10 you will see this evening, evolves from that planning

11 process that included well over 600 residents and

12 stakeholders from Parkside. And so tonight you will

13 hear about a 44-unit multi-family project. As a CDC

14 we have worked along side various developers,

15 partners, joint venture partners over the tenure of

16 our existence.

17 And so tonight we have with us,

18 Cornerstone Community Partners, Chris Gigliotti who

19 is not stepping in only as a joint venture partner

20 but through the neighborhood planning process,

21 through three years of just due diligence of looking

22 at the community and trying to ascertain the needs of

23 the community; has worked with us to really create

24 what we believe to be a very beneficial project to

25 the community. So at this time, I'm going to turn

51

1 the microphone over to Chris for introduction.

2 MR. GIGLIOTTI: Thank you very much. We

3 appreciate you hearing about our project.

4 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Gigliotti, you're

5 soft-spoken but we need you to be loud so everyone

6 can hear you.

7 MR. GIGLIOTTI: We're very excited to

8 work with Bridget and PBCIP. We've worked with the

9 residents of Parkside for a number of years now and

10 this plan is really driven by their vision, the

11 vision of the residents. So after listening to them,

12 we incorporated it into our plans, components of

13 transportation, health, education, community

14 services, elimination of crime and blight.

15 And this part of it does many of those

16 things but has a housing portion because we want to

17 create opportunities and choices for workforce

18 housing for the residents of Parkside and for the

19 workforce of the anchored institutions that are part

20 of Parkside. So we're very excited to help

21 perpetuate the renewal of Haddon Avenue and also the

22 generation of workforce housing for the residents.

23 Thank you very much.

24 MR. FLOYD: Thank you, Chris. And I know

25 there's a lot of questions about what's exactly being

52

1 proposed. So I'm going to ask Paul to come up to

2 Exhibit A1. And first, Paul, can you describe where

3 the properties in question are and what's being

4 proposed on those lots? Also, Paul is a licensed

5 professional engineer in the State of New Jersey.

6 MR. EINGORN: Please give us your

7 credentials.

8 MR. WITTHOHN: My name is Paul Witthohn.

9 I'm a graduate of Rowan University with a degree in

10 civil engineering. I'm licensed in the State of New

11 Jersey. I've been practicing land development with

12 preparing applications for over ten years. And I've

13 testified as an expert witness before other boards.

14 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Okay.

15 MR. FLOYD: Paul, the microphone won't

16 stretch all the way over to your board. But if you

17 can go to the board and just point out in a loud

18 voice where the properties are located, some of the

19 surrounding road network and what is actually being

20 proposed on those lots?

21 MR. WITTHOHN: The surrounding road

22 networks are the grid streets in the Parkside

23 Development. Up here at the top street is Kenwood

24 Avenue. This is Princess Avenue and this is Haddon

25 Avenue. The side streets are Landsdowne Avenue along

53

1 here with Euclid Avenue and Whitman Avenue.

2 The proposed development is in summary

3 six duplex units. The proposed limit of the project

4 are located in these dashed lines here. The six

5 duplex units are located here. Kenwood Avenue as

6 well as four duplex units one on Princess Avenue and

7 one on Kenwood Avenue. And two proposed duplex units

8 on Kenwood Avenue and Kenwood Avenue. Those other

9 two are single units. The other side of the duplex

10 exists so there will be completion of the other

11 duplex.

12 The other developments are on Haddon

13 Avenue, there is the proposed four one-bedroom

14 units. That's on Haddon Avenue down here with

15 parking in the back, as well as a three-bedroom unit

16 on Whitman Avenue right here. And the other location

17 is a proposed 29 multi-family unit located on Haddon

18 Avenue right here with parking back here with access

19 to Princess Avenue.

20 MR. FLOYD: Maybe to help get some more

21 flavor, if you can bring up Exhibit A2, the rendered

22 site plans and just detail what's being proposed on

23 each lot.

24 MR. WITTHOHN: Here you can see on

25 Princess Avenue is two duplex units with parking in

54

1 the back with access to Landsdowne Avenue and

2 proposed utility connections as well as a walkway.

3 MS. ATWOOD: Can we have actual

4 addresses?

5 MS. PHIFER: It's the 1400 block.

6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: What hundred block

7 is Haddon Avenue?

8 MS. PHIFER: Haddon Avenue is -- so it's

9 1410 to 1460 Haddon Avenue which are the buildings

10 that sit adjacent to the lot next to Fayer's. So

11 there are two vacant buildings there and then three

12 lots. That's one area. The second area is the old

13 medical arts building which has been vacant for 25

14 plus years. And then the old Ambi Van building

15 that's been vacant now for about 14, 15 years that

16 we've been trying to keep up as best as we can.

17 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Where is that

18 located?

19 MS. PHIFER: So that's on Haddon Avenue.

20 And then there's a triangular-shaped older bar that's

21 been vacant for about 25 years at the corner of

22 Haddon and Whitman. So those are the locations along

23 Haddon Avenue. In addition to that, we have

24 properties on Kenwood, one that's adjacent to our

25 office which is located at 1480 -- 583, I'm sorry,

55

1 Kenwood Avenue. It sits adjacent -- well, it's a

2 site where a property that was previously there that

3 was abandoned.

4 Then there are two vacant lots on the

5 1400 block, 1466 and 1468. And then there is an old

6 abandoned shell that we would rehab along 1400 block

7 of Kenwood. And the final lot is at the corner of

8 Landsdowne and Princess. So the 1400 block of

9 Princess and Landsdowne Avenue, overgrown, vacant.

10 Those are the sites.

11 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Bridget, I have a

12 question. You said one of them was on Haddon and

13 Whitman.

14 MS. PHIFER: Yes. So it sits at the

15 corner of Haddon Avenue and Whitman.

16 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: So it's going down

17 this way, right?

18 MS. PHIFER: So it's on the opposite. So

19 Parkside sits on, I'm going to say, on the righthand

20 side, yes. So it's on the lefthand side of Haddon

21 Avenue.

22 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I want to ask you a

23 question. They've been up here before. You're over

24 on -- what's the other side called?

25 MS. PHIFER: Whitman Park.

56

1 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Yeah.

2 MS. PHIFER: So that would in terms of the

3 census tracks, the way that our census tracks are

4 geographically defined in the City, it would be

5 considered to be Whitman Park.

6 If I could though, go back. We have

7 completed a redevelopment plan for Parkside which

8 included the boundaries from the river to the PATCO

9 speedline, which included from Vesper Boulevard to

10 Walnut Street. We also completed a Neighborhood Plan

11 in 2005. And the discovery of the decision that was

12 given by the City of Camden at that time, was that we

13 could plan for both sides of Haddon Avenue.

14 So what we're talking about with that

15 location is, how many units at the old bar that's 25

16 years vacant. So two three-bedroom apartments.

17 That's what we're talking about would be in Whitman

18 Park. The remaining units would be located in

19 Parkside. So 42 of the units in Parkside, two units

20 at the Whitman Avenue-Haddon Avenue juncture.

21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Census track?

22 MS. PHIFER: Census track, right.

23 MS. WASHINGTON: Are you saying that the

24 City gave you permission to --

25 MS. PHIFER: They did absolutely.

57

1 MS. WASHINGTON: Still now?

2 MS. PHIFER: So that was 2005. We have

3 not yet gone before the City for approval of our 2017

4 Neighborhood Plan. We met with the mayor back in

5 April, I think it was. He wanted our Councilman,

6 Brian Coleman, to schedule meetings with the

7 representative organizations in the area.

8 We met with Ali Sloan El. I met with him

9 and there was another staff member there with us.

10 And so the idea is that we're going to schedule

11 meetings with the other entities as well. I reached

12 out to Pastor Green and Maddy McKeith is here. So

13 we're working on scheduling a meeting for the week of

14 the 15th.

15 So we don't have a newly approved plan

16 but we do have a 2005 plan that we still can continue

17 to use as the basis, sort of the road map for the

18 work that we do. And our most recent plan, it really

19 updates the vision. You know, we've been able to do

20 some things in Parkside. We've been able to hit some

21 singles, some doubles. And we're hoping that through

22 this new Neighborhood Plan, that we'll be able to

23 really hit some home runs and really transform and

24 give the community to the people who live there, the

25 type of community they deserve.

58

1 MR. EINGORN: For the persons in the

2 audience, if you can just keep your comments to when

3 you have your time up at the podium.

4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's our City,

5 man.

6 MS. ATWOOD: Sweetheart, you're --

7 MR. EINGORN: You're going to have your

8 time. The Board is asking that you show respect

9 between each other. That's it.

10 MS. ATWOOD: Michael, there's a public

11 portion coming up.

12 I have a question, Bridget. When did

13 Parkside move from rehabbing homes or whatever for

14 people to own to rental?

15 MS. PHIFER: So the Fasion Mews Project

16 back in 2006 was a joint venture relationship with

17 Pennrose. In 2012, 2010, we completed the Ferry

18 project with the joint venture partner Conover. So

19 we've been doing it for 12 years now.

20 MS. ATWOOD: You realize you're taking

21 homes. That's an apartment building complex. I

22 didn't realize you were taking homes to rent now;

23 turning them into apartments.

24 MS. PHIFER: Yeah. So in this instance,

25 we're talking about one property that will be

59

1 rehabbed for a home. But we're talking about the

2 remaining five lots that will be converted for rental

3 purposes.

4 MS. ATWOOD: Next question, I see here it

5 says about rooming house and boarding house

6 application.

7 MS. PHIFER: No. We've never supported

8 rooming houses or boarding houses.

9 MS. ATWOOD: Well, it says four.

10 MS. PHIFER: That's got to be a typo

11 because we never support that. When we think about

12 the project, what we're thinking about is those

13 families, those individuals who want to stay in the

14 City of Camden or in Parkside but they don't

15 necessarily have an affordable rental option. Many

16 of the high school students that we've talked to

17 throughout our neighborhood planning process, they

18 talked about the fact that they didn't want to return

19 to Camden because they didn't have a place to return

20 to.

21 So being able to provide that type of

22 housing, I've even had seniors talk about how they

23 could potentially transition from the homes that they

24 own in Parkside to this type of complex because it

25 could provide them with the type of quality of life

60

1 or amenity that they're seeking.

2 And with regards to our development along

3 Haddon Avenue, we currently own a laundromat in

4 Whitman Park. We previously owned Dockey Steaks, the

5 property in the Gateway Neighborhood. We have a

6 learning garden in Gateway. We also have -- what

7 other properties do we have --

8 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Now, hold up. Keep

9 the noise down.

10 MS. PHIFER: But I'm just trying to give

11 a picture of --

12 MS. ABED: Ms. Moore was trying to speak

13 earlier.

14 MS. MOORE: Mr. Chairman, Remington &

15 Vernick prepared a report in which we analyzed for

16 the use and site plan for us to review. If we can

17 just go through it and maybe you can get more

18 testimony so that everyone understands, both the

19 Board and the residents understand our concerns on

20 behalf of the City so we can get questions. That's

21 generally. It will be my report dated June 27, 2018.

22 MR. EINGORN: It should be the last

23 document attached to your application package.

24 MS. MOORE: Since I'm not generally at

25 your Zoning Board meetings, I read through all the

61

1 underlined comments so we can get enough testimony

2 from the applicant so everyone is very clear as to

3 what's going to take place.

4 MR. FLOYD: Understood. And we

5 understand you'd be reading through all the comments.

6 We also did prepare a point-by-point response letter

7 that CES did which we did not have time to give it to

8 you earlier. But we'll still go through it just for

9 the record. That should answer all the questions.

10 MS. MOORE: I will hand this out to the

11 Board members. I will go through this with revised

12 plans once they're submitted if this project does get

13 approved.

14 MR. FLOYD: Yes.

15 MS. MOORE: So we addressed both the use

16 and the site plan portion for the project. All

17 right?

18 MR. FLOYD: Yes.

19 MS. MOORE: Mr. Chairman, I'm referring

20 to Remington & Vernick's letter dated June 27, 2018.

21 I'll start off on page 4 for zoning requirements and

22 use.

23 The applicant's proposed single-family

24 residential use is in conformance with the permitted

25 principal uses of the Parkside Redevelopment Plan.

62

1 However, the applicant's proposed multi-family

2 residential use is not in conformance with the

3 permitted principal uses of the Parkside

4 Redevelopment Plan. Therefore, a "(d)1" variance is

5 necessary for the multi-family use.

6 The applicant has the burden of

7 demonstrating "Special Reasons" for granting the use

8 variance as well as offering an "enhanced quality of

9 proof" which states that the variance is not

10 inconsistent with the intent and purpose of the

11 Master Plan and zoning ordinance which is (Positive

12 Criteria). The applicant should also demonstrate

13 that the requested relief can be granted without

14 substantial detriment to the public good and will not

15 impair the intent and purpose of the zone plan and

16 zoning ordinance which is (Negative Criteria).

17 "Special Reasons", the applicant should

18 demonstrate that the proposed use carries out the

19 purposes of zoning as listed in 40:55D-2 of the

20 Municipal Land Use Law or that the refusal to allow

21 the project would impose an undue hardship on the

22 applicant. The applicant must present support for

23 the first test within a Statement of Reasons

24 contending that the proposed use promotes the purpose

25 of zoning. In lieu of the Statement of Reasons, the

63

1 applicant shall provide a statement regarding the

2 undue hardship which must relate to the land in

3 question or unique conditions of the site.

4 With respect to the first portion of the

5 Negative Criteria, the applicant must demonstrate

6 that the requested relief can be granted without

7 substantial detriment to the public good. The

8 applicant must demonstrate that the proposed use will

9 not have a negative impact on the adjacent

10 properties, and that it will not cause such damage to

11 the character of the neighborhood as to constitute

12 "substantial detriment to the public good." The

13 applicant shall provide testimony at the Zoning Board

14 hearing.

15 In the second prong of the Negative

16 Criteria, the applicant must demonstrate that the

17 requested relief will not impair the intent and

18 purpose of the zone plan and zoning ordinance.

19 Testimony should be provided as to why the proposal

20 will not impair the intent and purpose of the zone

21 and the City's Master Plan.

22 Now, for your testimony, do you want to

23 provide that type of testimony that I mentioned now?

24 Or are we going to go through the letter and you

25 provide testimony as it comes? Or is that at the

64

1 end? How do you want to handle the use portion?

2 MR. FLOYD: The use variance is the most

3 important as part of the application. So Mr. Kyle is

4 here now. If he can put the proofs on the record

5 regarding the positive and negative criteria so that

6 we can discuss the use variance just for the

7 multi-family.

8 MS. MOORE: Thank you.

9 MR. FLOYD: If you would come up to the

10 microphone, Mr. Kyle. Very briefly, could you just

11 state your qualifications for the record.

12 MR. KYLE: Sure. I have a Bachelor of

13 Science and Environmental Planning and Design from

14 Rutgers University which I received in 1996. I've

15 been a practicing planner for about 20 years,

16 currently advising a number of municipalities such as

17 the City of Camden.

18 I work as a municipal consultant for

19 eight municipalities. I've also appeared and been

20 qualified as an expert in planning by over 180 boards

21 in the state, including a number of appearances here

22 in Camden, although not recently. I'm a licensed

23 professional planner and also a member of the

24 American Institute of Certified Planners.

25 MR. FLOYD: Mr. Chairman, I would ask

65

1 that Mr. Kyle be represented as an expert in the

2 field of planning.

3 MR. KYLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

4 MR. FLOYD: Jim, you've heard some of the

5 fact-based testimony and you also have familiarize

6 yourself with the application. Can you describe the

7 use variance we believe that's required and whether

8 those uses are inherently beneficial and all the

9 negative criteria?

10 MR. KYLE: So as part of the proposal as

11 we've heard, there's some multi-family uses that are

12 proposed in three areas of the plans. There's

13 basically three along Haddon Avenue where

14 multi-family is not permitted. It's permitted on the

15 floors above non-residential. But it's not permitted

16 in a stand-alone building.

17 So this project is primarily -- is not

18 primarily -- it's entirely composed of units that

19 will be affordable, considered affordable. So the

20 nature of the project is that all the units will be

21 deemed affordable housing in the context of the

22 requirements of well, defunct COA but under the

23 operative rules for affordable housing currently.

24 Given that fact, there's a case called Easthampton --

25 Homes of Hope v. Easthampton Planning Board where the

66

1 applicant had come in with a 100 percent affordable

2 project of eight units. And the court determined on

3 appeal that that was an inherently beneficial use.

4 So when we talk about a project that's an

5 inherently beneficial use, the proofs that we

6 consider for that use variance, are slightly

7 different than what Ms. Moore has talked about here

8 in her letter. And the positive criteria for an

9 inherently beneficial use are presumptively

10 satisfied. Because the use in and of itself promotes

11 the public welfare in such a strong way that the

12 courts have determined that Special Reasons are

13 evident or are promoted and that's the general

14 welfare of the public, the public good.

15 So we're also not required to demonstrate

16 if it's inherently beneficial that the site is

17 particularly suited to the proposed use as the courts

18 have determined for inherently beneficial use cases

19 before. All of the determinations for an inherently

20 beneficial use case come out of a court case called

21 Sica v. Wall Board of Adjustment. And that was

22 related to a head trauma center or head injury

23 treatment center.

24 And this is kind of where this idea of an

25 inherently beneficial use came from. The court in

67

1 that case and the supreme court had modified the

2 traditional test that we have. So we still talk

3 about positive and negative criteria. But really the

4 legal burden for an inherently beneficial use is much

5 less than a D1 variance for a use that's commercial

6 in nature. So, again, we presumptively satisfy the

7 positive criteria. So the discussion on that kind

8 of, and I'm not being smart about that, it kind of

9 stops there. That is, if you agree that it's an

10 inherently beneficial use, which I think in the Homes

11 of Hope case it was pretty clear that the court

12 determined that to be the case.

13 Now, in terms of the negative, we use

14 what's called the Sica balancing test. And this

15 comes out of this court case, Sica v. Wall Board of

16 Adjustment. This is a four-part test. And the first

17 part of that is, we determine what the public

18 interest at stake is, realizing that some uses are

19 more compelling than others.

20 Second, identifying any detrimental

21 affects that could ensue from the grant of the

22 variance. Third, any conditions that the Board can

23 place on the use to reduce those detrimental affects.

24 And if there are conditions you can impose, you

25 should lessen the weight of the detriment based on

68

1 the conditions. And then finally, we balance the

2 public benefit versus the potential detriments, and

3 that gives us our determination if there's any

4 substantial detriment to the public good.

5 So let me just run through my analysis

6 real quick on the Sica balancing. The public

7 interest at stake here, this project is in

8 conformance with the Redevelopment Plans. It's in

9 conformance with the Neighborhood Plan, although that

10 Neighborhood hasn't been updated and adopted yet as

11 we've heard. It's prepared in 2017 but has not been

12 adopted by the City yet. And the goal here is to

13 provide stable housing. It helps also to provide

14 diverse housing options for residents in Parkside,

15 ones that are affordable. And this is really -- and

16 when you drill down into the goals of the

17 Redevelopment Plan, it talks specifically about

18 rehabilitating existing structures and then also

19 providing diverse housing opportunities which this

20 still will do.

21 In certain instances, it also eliminates

22 commercial development in kind of mid-block. So when

23 you look at -- one of the requirements it says, is

24 that we have commercial on the ground floor. So when

25 you look at some of the ways that these are situated,

69

1 it makes more sense from a planning prospective as to

2 how we're structuring this. So there will be some

3 limited commercial. Can we have exhibit, the aerial

4 photograph? Is that here?

5 So in conjunction with this proposal,

6 there will be some limited commercial, approximately

7 3,500 square feet on the front. We will still have

8 units on the ground floor so this portion of the

9 project still needs a use variance. And I'm

10 referring to A1. This is the Whitman Park parcel that

11 we were discussing here on the corner of Whitman

12 Avenue, the former bar that was mentioned. And then

13 the other piece with multi-families is a little

14 further down Haddon Avenue, a little further to the

15 west here in this area on the left side of A1.

16 So part of this is that we don't have the

17 commercial aspect in portions or the entire ground

18 floor is not commercial. So I think that the other

19 part of the public interest at stake, if you look at

20 some of the positioning of these parcels, is that

21 it makes sense where we're locating this strictly

22 multi-family. We have a relationship to houses that

23 are on either side, many of which are duplex units or

24 rowhomes. We think that from a public prospective

25 and a planning prospective, this makes for a better

70

1 zoning alternative. So overall the goal, though, is

2 to provide affordable housing options. And, yes,

3 there are rental housing options.

4 And I know there's been some discussion

5 in the audience tonight about home ownership

6 opportunities. The issue, though, these days and I

7 should say that I'm not just a municipal planner but

8 I work exclusively in affordable housing planning,

9 both for municipalities as well as for developers.

10 And when you're coming up with a strategy for

11 projects, the banks have kind of tightened the reigns

12 on lending a little bit more than it was, say, four,

13 five years ago.

14 So what a lot of developers have learned

15 is that it's more difficult for homeowners to get a

16 loan, a mortgage to buy homes than it is for them to

17 qualify for rental. So it really opens up a lot of

18 options that some people that can't qualify for

19 mortgages, to have decent housing. And this is --

20 again, this is really the public interest at stake

21 here, is providing safe and decent housing in these

22 neighborhoods for city residents. So I think in this

23 case, the public interest at stake is pretty

24 compelling.

25 Any detrimental affects, these are modest

71

1 scale multi-family buildings. We're not talking

2 about highrises here in this neighborhood. These

3 buildings are located on the periphery of the

4 Parkside neighborhood fronting on Haddon Avenue. So

5 really there's no substantial detrimental impacts to

6 the surrounding properties in my mind. And more, we

7 hope that it'll have the inverse effect of being

8 beneficial to surrounding properties as we see these

9 properties redeveloped and people are investing in

10 the neighborhood; that it might spur others to also

11 make improvement to their dwellings as well. So

12 really as I look at this, we're talking about

13 residential. It's really just the form of

14 residential that we're talking about. It's

15 multi-family.

16 Again, it's not very dense so I think it

17 fits in with the surrounding neighborhood and the

18 Haddon Avenue corridor is a busier section of the

19 Parkside neighborhood. So if we're going to place

20 these here, the best place to put them is kind of out

21 on Haddon Avenue and I think that makes sense. So

22 really to my mind, the detrimental effects are pretty

23 limited here when we look at locating residential

24 development here.

25 Any conditions, again, I have looked at

72

1 this trying to think about any conditions that the

2 Board might be able to impose on this in order to

3 reduce any detrimental effects. Honestly, my feeling

4 is there aren't many to reduce. We're certainly open

5 to any suggestion if the Board felt there were things

6 that we could do to further diminish this. But,

7 again, I think based on the density that's proposed

8 in the form, there really aren't many detrimental

9 affects to speak of.

10 And then when we balance the positive,

11 the public welfare benefit of putting the

12 Redevelopment Plan in place, taking these units,

13 rehabilitating, starting the process of

14 rehabilitation in this neighborhood compared with

15 what I see as pretty much nonexistent detrimental

16 affects, I think the positives far outweigh in this

17 case and that there would not be any substantial

18 impact to the surrounding properties that we're

19 talking about.

20 Now, the intent, purpose of the zone

21 plan. So there was mention in Ms. Moore's letter

22 about the enhanced quality of proof on the second

23 prong of the negative criteria. So under the

24 inherently beneficial use, we'll call it the

25 doctrine, we are not required to demonstrate an

73

1 enhanced quality of proof within an inherently

2 beneficial use. But what I will say is that looking

3 at the intent and purpose of the redevelopment plans

4 that we have in place and the redevelopment

5 investigations, this proposal is squarely in line

6 with a lot of what's discussed in there. And, again,

7 it really goes to providing safety, decent and

8 affordable housing in this neighborhood for people to

9 rent and live in.

10 MS. MOORE: So going back into the

11 letter, on page 10 we list some things for use

12 variance comments. So before we get into the site

13 portion which the rest of the letter is the site, I

14 just want to make sure that you heard testimony on

15 everything that I mentioned here.

16 So the applicant should address the

17 impact of the application on the following:

18 Compatibility of the proposed use with surrounding

19 uses and mitigating factors for the use variance. The

20 application should address the following items for

21 the Board to be able to evaluate the impact of the

22 proposed application on the neighboring properties

23 and the City; that the use will not injure or detract

24 from the use of neighboring property; that the use

25 will not detract from the character of the

74

1 neighborhood; that the use of the property adjacent

2 to the area included in the plan is adequately

3 safeguarded.

4 That the property is suitable for the

5 intended use; that the use will serve the best

6 interests of the City; that the use will not

7 adversely affect public sewers and facilities such as

8 water, sewer, police and fire protection; that the

9 use will not adversely affect the drainage facilities

10 in the adjacent neighborhood; and that the use will

11 not adversely affect the safe flow of highway traffic

12 and that adequate roadway accesses are provided to

13 protect roadways from undue congestion and hazards.

14 So that's pretty much everything that we

15 have concerning the use portion. So you heard the

16 use testimony. Do you want me to go into the site

17 portion or? I don't know how -- if you want any

18 questions regarding use and then proceed with site

19 plan?

20 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Yeah, let's get some

21 questions for use. Anybody, any questions?

22 MR. EINGORN: Does the Board have any

23 questions about the use that they're requesting, the

24 criteria that they have to meet?

25 MS. ABED: I do. With Letter H on the

75

1 letter where it says, the use will not adversely

2 affect the safe flow of the highway traffic and

3 adequate roadway accesses are provided to protect

4 roadways from undue congestion and hazards. So by

5 the director's very own testimony, most of the

6 properties are currently vacant or they're vacant

7 lots, I believe?

8 MR. KYLE: Correct.

9 MS. ABED: So they would be new homes and

10 new parking and new traffic, new addition to that.

11 So I just wanted to hear something on that affect.

12 MR. KYLE: So in terms of traffic. So

13 first of all, we don't have any -- so for the larger

14 number of units which are located on the righthand

15 side of the drawing, so this would be cutting across

16 Whitman Avenue down here on Haddon Avenue.

17 The parking, the access will be from the

18 backside so there's no driveway access there.

19 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So it'll be

20 congested in Parkside.

21 MR. KYLE: The rest of those units were

22 fairly small in nature so the amount of traffic that

23 will be generated is fairly limited comparatively

24 speaking.

25 MS. ABED: And there's another one with

76

1 adjacent properties. Give me one second. I just saw

2 it.

3 MR. EINGORN: So as it relates to the

4 traffic issues, can you tell me how many additional

5 units this area is going to see as from what's

6 currently there?

7 MR. KYLE: Forty-four is the total number

8 that we have. But they're scattered so I think 29

9 are in the building. I'm going to have to have the

10 architect help me out here because I can't remember

11 all the details. So there's 29 located in the lower

12 right portion in front of Haddon Avenue. There's a

13 parking area in the rear. There's two on the Whitman

14 Avenue side. Seven on the other property that fronts

15 on Haddon Avenue. here's kind of a variety of

16 scattered site. I think it's --

17 MR. HALEY: Six.

18 MR. KYLE: -- six total that are

19 scattered throughout the remainder of the

20 neighborhood. So really what it does is, it kind of

21 spreads out any of the potential impact. Again,

22 we're not talking about hundreds of units. It's 44

23 total. And the majority of them are fronting on

24 Haddon Avenue.

25 MR. EINGORN: So if all the property now

77

1 that's currently existing were in use right this very

2 instance, how many houses, units are we talking

3 about?

4 MR. KYLE: How many occupied units do we

5 have?

6 MR. HALEY: Zero.

7 MR. KYLE: So they're all vacant.

8 MR. EINGORN: Well, my question was, if

9 they were currently in use, how many units are you

10 talking?

11 MR. HALEY: Two of them are commercial

12 buildings.

13 MS. PHIFER: They were all in use. One,

14 two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.

15 Approximately 10 to 12 units.

16 MR. EINGORN: Ten residential units and

17 two commercial?

18 MS. PHIFER: Right. If they were all in

19 use, yes.

20 MR. HALEY: It should be noted that --

21 should I come forward?

22 MR. EINGORN: Yes, please come forward,

23 please.

24 MR. HALEY: My name is James Haley. I'm

25 with the architecture firm of Haley Donovan. We're

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1 located here at 400 S. Broadway here in Camden.

2 We're an architectural firm; been in existence for 12

3 years; we specialize in urban revitalization; we

4 specialize in housing; and we work in four states,

5 Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware and Maryland, as

6 well as, we've completed a number of projects here in

7 the City of Camden.

8 Personally I am a licensed architect in

9 the State of New Jersey. I'm a LEED accredited

10 professional and also a certified passive house

11 consultant. And I've testified in front of numerous

12 boards including the City of Camden.

13 So it should be noted that two of the

14 buildings had non-residential uses. And the parking

15 requirements for non-residential use are much more

16 significant. So, if you want to do an analysis there

17 or congestion or a traffic analysis, you have to

18 include those uses in the analysis of what the

19 parking would be for those uses. So we think there's

20 conversion from commercial to a residential use is

21 actually reducing the parking.

22 MS. ABED: Within that same agenda that

23 you just mentioned on 2A, the property will not

24 injure or detract from the use of neighboring

25 property. The particular properties that you're

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1 talking about and it's just for me and I was just

2 looking at another map over here. Any of the

3 adjacent properties and when I mean adjacent, I mean

4 either abutting or right next door to it, are any of

5 those not owned by Parkside that you'll be impacting?

6 MS. PHIFER: There's one.

7 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: One out of the 40?

8 MS. PHIFER: Right.

9 MR. HALEY: We're attaching some of those

10 buildings.

11 MS. ABED: Can you further elaborate on

12 that, please?

13 MR. HALEY: Sure. So a number of our

14 scattered site units are attaching to existing duplex

15 units that have lost their adjacent unit. So we're

16 replacing the adjacent to make it a twin again. So

17 you'd say that's an improvement to the neighborhood

18 because we're taking a wall that was never meant to

19 be an exterior wall that has been cladded sometimes

20 temporarily and we're re-instituting a new

21 construction townhouse next door that matches.

22 MS. PHIFER: Let me re-address that.

23 There is only one --

24 MS. ABED: I'm sorry. Give me one

25 second. It's just that everybody is talking at the

80

1 same time and I can't hear.

2 MR. COOPER: You just want to change the

3 face of the community by putting a house that doesn't

4 fit next to the existing --

5 MR. HALEY: In many regards we're going

6 to put the community back where it was because there

7 was a house in that location. We are going to

8 respect the scale, the proportion, the use of

9 materials of the neighboring houses so that we

10 assimilate.

11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: What was the

12 question cause we can't hear you guys?

13 MR. COOPER: My question was, that he was

14 going to build the house that was resembling the one

15 that's already there. He's not going to change the

16 face of the community by putting a house that doesn't

17 fit there.

18 MR. HALEY: So the answer was, yes, we

19 are going to respect the existing conditions. One

20 nice thing about that neighborhood is big deep

21 porches. So we're going to put a nice, big, deep

22 porch. Very similar. We're going to try to match

23 the height of the existing buildings. In many ways

24 we're respecting the existing family.

25 MS. PHIFER: I can go back and answer your

81

1 question again. There is one property to be newly

2 constructed that will be butt up against an existing

3 unit. And then there's one unit that is an actual

4 rehab. The others are vacant lots.

5 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Where is that unit

6 at? You said 44?

7 MS. PHIFER: So that's at 1483 Kenwood

8 Avenue. And then there's a unit that would be

9 rehabbed at 1468, I think is the address on Kenwood

10 Avenue.

11 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Another thing I want

12 to ask you. Kenwood and Parkside, did they meet?

13 Did you's meet and talk this over?

14 MS. PHIFER: Yes. So we had a community

15 meeting in the month of May which we presented the

16 project. We invited all the residents from the

17 surrounding areas that will be affected by other

18 projects. And then we also introduced the project to

19 the community at our April meeting as well.

20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's not true.

21 MS. PHIFER: It is true.

22 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I'm saying, once you

23 had that meeting right there, what came out?

24 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No way.

25 MS. PHIFER: You were there.

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1 The requirement is for people who live

2 within a 200-feet radius of the project. We met that

3 by going out, sending out fliers, hand-delivering

4 fliers to individuals that fall within that 200-foot

5 radius. We invited them into a community meeting

6 that was held in the month of May. And that we also

7 had a meeting introducing it to our membership to the

8 community in April as well.

9 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Then I heard you say

10 something about 2008, something like that?

11 MR. COOPER: 2005.

12 MS. PHIFER: 2005 plan, yes.

13 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: You hadn't been back

14 to the City to find out is that okay?

15 MS. PHIFER: Oh, that was approved. It's

16 been approved by the City of Camden and by New Jersey

17 Department of Community Affairs. So that is true.

18 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: But I'm saying now,

19 the new one.

20 MS. PHIFER: So we met with the mayor.

21 It was agreed during the meeting that we would try

22 and get the plan on the agenda by July. But because

23 there was a requirement for us to meet with some of

24 the neighboring organizations and that our council

25 person was going to kind of help us to pull those

83

1 meetings together we're hoping --

2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Hey, that --

3 MR. EINGORN: Please just let her finish.

4 You'll have your time.

5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That did not

6 happen.

7 MR. EINGORN: You'll have your time. You

8 can raise that when it's your turn.

9 MS. PHIFER: I did say it happened.

10 Yes. But we did meet with you and with the

11 councilman and Mayor Redd, so that did happen.

12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Not --

13 MS. PHIFER: So that's where we are at

14 this point.

15 But this project is consistent with what

16 was included as a part of our dated 2005 plan. And

17 if I could go back to the question that you asked,

18 Ms. Atwood. In terms of why are we considering this

19 type of project when really our thrust has been

20 around scattered site rehab for sale. We believe in

21 order to stabilize the neighborhood, we really need

22 to have homeowners.

23 But the issue is, for the past five years

24 we have not been able to develop because the subsidy,

25 the funding that we need to develop, has not been

84

1 available with our previous governor, he stripped

2 HFAM and some of the other funding sources that were

3 critical to us, you know, to be able to develop.

4 And as a result, we can't continue to

5 stand still. If, in fact, we really want to begin to

6 bring about some real transformation to the

7 neighborhood. And, again, as I mentioned, we don't

8 want to continue with the rental kind of framework.

9 We would like to, at some point in time, continue

10 doing some of that work that we've done on a

11 block-by-block basis where we're acquiring vacant

12 shells. We're rehabbing them. And we're selling

13 them to families that might not otherwise be able to

14 afford their own home.

15 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Why I'm asking, you

16 said something 43. Is it 43, right?

17 MS. PHIFER: Forty-four.

18 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: But 43 is on your

19 property, on your side?

20 MS. PHIFER: Forty-two units on the

21 Parkside side. And then two units on the Whitman

22 Park side at Whitman Avenue.

23 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Well, what kind of

24 agreement did you make for when you started doing

25 houses?

85

1 MS. PHIFER: Agreement with?

2 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: With each other; like

3 Parkside and Whitman Park.

4 MS. PHIFER: There is no agreement.

5 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: So otherwise you can

6 take yours and just go over there and they can take

7 theirs and come to Parkside?

8 MS. PHIFER: Well, I don't necessarily

9 see it that way. I don't see it that way. I mean,

10 previously we had this partnership around the Ferry

11 Street Project that was done in conjunction with

12 Conover. And we came together with Whitman Park and

13 we worked out the details of that with no issue.

14 And I will tell you also before we even

15 begin this neighborhood planning process, we really

16 wanted Whitman Park to be a part of the plan. We

17 invited them to the table. Wanted to really look at

18 an opportunity for us to do scales; take a scaled

19 vision of the areas but there was on interest there

20 for that.

21 MS. WASHINGTON: Excuse me. When did you

22 invite Whitman Park to --

23 MS. PHIFER: This was back in

24 August/September of 2015.

25 MS. WASHINGTON: Well, the people in

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1 Whitman Park, how did they get this information?

2 MS. PHIFER: So we invited -- who was it

3 Melisha? We invited United Neighbors of Whitman

4 Park. We invited Pastor Green's church.

5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: When?

6 MS. PHIFER: I said August/September of

7 2015. This is before we even began. We wanted to

8 create this partnership where we could potentially go

9 for funding and really work on a comprehensive plan

10 and not just look at Parkside.

11 MS. WASHINGTON: Well, I --

12 MS. PHIFER: What happens at Parkside

13 affects Whitman Park. What happens in Whitman

14 affects us.

15 MS. WASHINGTON: I understand what you're

16 saying but --

17 MS. PHIFER: There were about seven or

18 eight organizations that we invited --

19 MS. WASHINGTON: But the part of Whitman

20 Park that I live in had never heard of what you're

21 talking about.

22 MS. PHIFER: Yeah. So we invited in

23 leaders from various organizations in Whitman Park.

24 So I would just talk to some of the leadership there.

25 We did invite them to the table and they came to a

87

1 meeting, several meetings actually.

2 MS. ABED: Just continue on because I

3 don't want to divert. This is going to be a lot of

4 items that we're going to have to hit.

5 One other question is, 2D, is the

6 property suitable for the intended use? So your

7 commercial buildings, are they new construction or

8 rehab, the commercial ones that you're planning on

9 doing?

10 MR. EINGORN: Excuse me. The court

11 reporter has to take down everything that's being

12 said. And if everybody is talking, she's can't hear.

13 This transcript is going to be available. You can

14 order it from an OPRA request but it can't be clear

15 if she can't hear what's being said.

16 So when it's open to the public, you all

17 will have your chance to speak; you'll be given the

18 microphone and you'll be allowed to speak freely and

19 clearly and address your issues. But until then, we

20 need to have some semblance of silence so that we can

21 have the court reporter take down what's being said.

22 So if you can just please keep it down a little bit

23 at least out of respect for the court reporter. That

24 will be greatly appreciated.

25 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: How about respect

88

1 for the citizens? You're functioning a Board

2 meeting. We can't hear what everybody that's

3 addressing the issues of the Board is saying. Either

4 pass the microphone around or get some more because

5 we the citizens have a right to hear this and we're

6 not hearing it.

7 MR. EINGORN: That's fine.

8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We're not hearing

9 everything that's being said because --

10 MR. EINGORN: So a simple request would

11 be, excuse me, can you please speak up.

12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: How many times do

13 people have to say that?

14 MR. EINGORN: As many times as you have

15 to. If you can't hear them, let us know and we'll

16 ask them to speak louder.

17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Pass the

18 microphone over. This is a disrespect to the

19 community.

20 MR. EINGORN: Talking softly is a

21 disrespect to the community? They're doing their

22 best so that you can hear.

23 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No. Talking to

24 the community. It's not about talking softly.

25 MR. EINGORN: They're talking to us.

89

1 They're here to speak to the Board.

2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No. They're here

3 to speak to the citizens.

4 MR. EINGORN: No, they're not. They're

5 here to speak to the Board. We're available to

6 listen.

7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So you're more

8 important than the citizens?

9 MR. EINGORN: It's not about me. I'm not

10 the Board. I'm the attorney for the Board.

11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Who is the Chair?

12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: About Mr.

13 Hamilton?

14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We're addressing

15 the Chair. We're not addressing an attorney. Here

16 is the Chair. He runs the meeting. Robert's Rules

17 of Order; Sunshine Act; Parliamentary Procedure.

18 Do I have to write it down for you?

19 MS. PHIFER: You're being disrespectful.

20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm not being

21 disrespectful. I'm a concerned citizen. I don't

22 need to be quiet.

23 (Unidentified speakers shouting.)

24 MR. EINGORN: Hold up.

25 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's what they

90

1 do to us. It's called civil justice amongst black

2 folks. He got no power. Are you going to have me

3 arrested?

4 MR. EINGORN: I've asked you to calm

5 down.

6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: This is a public

7 meeting. Now you tell me I can't record. And if I

8 know my rights, I can record at any public meeting.

9 You can't tell me what to do. Now you're going to

10 tell me that I don't have no more rights?

11 MS. MOORE: Excuse me. We have a really

12 long agenda. I'm just trying to get to this letter.

13 Excuse me, I'm just --

14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Chair, can you

15 please make sure that the meeting is ran properly so

16 that the citizens can hear what's suppose to be said.

17 If you need to take that one microphone and pass it

18 around everytime you open your mouth, we got a right

19 to hear it. You are here to service the community.

20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you, Chair.

21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Not for a lawyer.

22 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I can see why we

23 can't get the gentleman now. We're arguing on both

24 sides like that. Why can't we come together?

25 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Such thing as due

91

1 process, man.

2 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I'm just saying.

3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Know your role;

4 know your rights.

5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He's an attorney.

6 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: The only reason why I

7 said that because one of the members sitting along

8 side of me, she said she never got no information on

9 this here.

10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's what we

11 sayin'.

12 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: That's why I asked

13 here, who had the meeting? See, when you have a

14 meeting it should be everybody at Parkside, everybody

15 in Whitman Park. You come together and you file.

16 Now, I've been here for about almost 15, 20 years.

17 Last month was the best I have ever seen this

18 meeting. I think it was two Spanish people.

19 When they came in, all this side was

20 against it; all this side against it; for it. Okay?

21 Before they left, they said, we don't know it was

22 like that. So what they did, they talked to each

23 other. And when it got finished, everybody was for

24 it. So we got to learn to sit together. We got to

25 stick together. If we don't sit together, it ain't

92

1 never going to happen.

2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: As long as it's

3 we. When you start with people from your community.

4 MS. MOORE: Excuse me. We just need to

5 put all this testimony on record. Okay?

6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The record should

7 be right here coming out of people's mouths.

8 MS. MOORE: I got it.

9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They shouldn't

10 have to do all -- most of our seniors don't know how

11 to do an OPRA request form to get information.

12 MS. MOORE: Oh, I understand.

13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Why aren't there

14 more microphones?

15 MS. MOORE: If there's an issue with

16 someone not speaking up, just let us know to speak

17 up. I have a very long review letter that we need to

18 get through tonight. So we're going to do the

19 testimony for the use and then we're going to go to

20 the site plan portion. But if you can please just

21 hold off the comments and everything until the end.

22 This is a very long letter. We want to try to get

23 through this tonight so we don't have to come back

24 for another meeting. That's all I'm asking. Just to

25 be happy to get this testimony on record.

93

1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can I ask you a

2 question? Who are you? I don't even know who you

3 are?

4 MS. MOORE: Dena Moore Johnson,

5 professional engineer. I'm the Planning Board

6 Engineer. I sit in on Zoning Board projects when

7 there are Planning Board issues like site plan. This

8 warranted having a professional here to present the

9 testimony.

10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you.

11 MS. MOORE: So we did the use portion.

12 So I don't know if you guys are all finished with the

13 use and then you want to open it up to the public for

14 the use. But we just -- we have to keep it moving

15 with the use and then we'll go to the site plan.

16 So did the Board members all mention?

17 That's how we decided we were going to do it? The

18 Board was going to ask questions about the use. Are

19 we going to open it up to the public now for the use

20 and then go to the site plan?

21 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Yes.

22 MS. MOORE: I'm sorry.

23 MR. EINGORN: Don't be sorry.

24 MS. MOORE: This could be an hour so

25 let's keep moving. I apologize. I know we all want

94

1 to just...

2 MR. EINGORN: On the use.

3 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: On the use. Okay.

4 Opening it up to the public. For or against.

5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We have questions

6 to be clarified. Who would like to have clarity?

7 MR. EINGORN: If anybody has questions

8 for clarity, come forward first. We'll do those and

9 then we'll get to the comment.

10 MS. MOORE: Keep in mind for your clarity

11 portion, there is a site plan review for actual site

12 plan issues. So if you have site plan questions,

13 that may be later. This is use, for the actual use.

14 Thank you.

15 MR. EINGORN: Anybody who has questions,

16 please come forward now so we can swear you all in.

17 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please come forward

18 to be sworn. Please raise your right hand.

19 - - -

20 MADDY McKEITH, ALISHA REILLY, VIDA NEAL,

21 GARY FRAISER, having been first duly sworn/affirmed,

22 was examined and testified as follows:

23 - - -

24 MR. EINGORN: Please state your full

25 name, address and affiliation for the record.

95

1 MS. McKEITH: Maddy McKeith with New Life

2 at 1721 Haddon Avenue, Whitman Park.

3 For a point of clarity, I'm not

4 understanding how the numbers are fitting in. It

5 said 44 projects but then when they were just

6 discussing it, they said 29 and then two would be for

7 commercial. That doesn't add up to 44 so I was

8 trying to find out exactly how that difference was.

9 And then also, this question was made as

10 far as for the use, as far as parking and as far as

11 if it would be more congestion. And they said that

12 if it's commercial, it should be less congested

13 because you're combining it. However, if all the

14 buildings are empty, then there's no traffic versus

15 now we're having all the buildings full so then that

16 is an issue. So I just wanted clarity on those two

17 issues?

18 MR. EINGORN: And that's where my

19 question came in was, how many units are we proposing

20 and how many are currently there? So if you just

21 want to give a quick explanation of that one more

22 time so that the public understands.

23 MR. HALEY: How many are currently there

24 occupied?

25 MR. EINGORN: Just there?

96

1 MS. McKEITH: Period.

2 MR. EINGORN: Period.

3 MS. McKEITH: That are still under --

4 MR. HALEY: They are all vacant.

5 MR. EINGORN: I'm not asking you if

6 they're vacant or not. How many structures are

7 currently there?

8 MR. HALEY: Four of the sites still have

9 structures on them.

10 MR. EINGORN: How many structures total?

11 MR. HALEY: Four.

12 MR. EINGORN: Four structures.

13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So all of them

14 have structured sites on them? What were you saying?

15 MS. MOORE: Now, there is a concern with

16 traffic that we addressed in the site plan portion.

17 There wasn't a lot of information provided for

18 traffic. So under site plan, we are requesting that

19 they provide some type of analysis from comparing

20 existing conditions or what it was at one point

21 versus what they're proposing. So we will get

22 something professionally in some type of report

23 regarding traffic if this plan gets approved, this

24 project gets approved. And before the signs are

25 planned, we will have something on record regarding

97

1 traffic.

2 MR. EINGORN: So if I can confirm. It's

3 44 proposed units?

4 MR. HALEY: Correct.

5 MR. EINGORN: There's currently four?

6 MR. HALEY: They're currently four

7 buildings. None of them are occupied.

8 MR. EINGORN: Does that answer your

9 question, ma'am?

10 MS. McKEITH: Yes.

11 MR. HALEY: Should I answer the question

12 about -- did that answer your question?

13 MS. McKEITH: Yes.

14 MS. REILLY: Good evening City Council,

15 good evening members of Parkside and all community

16 residents of Camden. My name is Alisha Reilly.

17 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: This is the Zoning

18 Board, not City Council.

19 MS. REILLY: Well, Zoning Board. Zoning

20 Board is in City Council Chambers. Thank you.

21 Good evening. I'm here on my mother's

22 behalf, Daisy Reilly, who lives in Parkside. She has

23 lived in Camden, New Jersey for over 60 years. I

24 believe my mother is also one of the oldest members

25 of the community at 95. She stands there and she's

98

1 been a longstanding member of Camden, worked at

2 Campbell Soup and contributed mightly to the fabric

3 of this community.

4 My questions are concerning basically the

5 use of this plan. First of all, I just wanted to

6 ask, I know that they said this is built -- they took

7 it back off of the 2005 plan that was approved by the

8 City. But this 2017/2118 plan has not been approved

9 yet. So I guess in my mind of questioning is like,

10 is there a set date for this to be approved? Or why

11 are we entertaining this until it is approved?

12 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Right. Because of

13 what happened. She said --

14 MR. EINGORN: Let's let the applicant

15 answer the question. Can somebody from the applicant

16 testify as to why we're here today before --

17 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: What I was saying,

18 she said the meeting was in July.

19 MR. KYLE: We can only address the plans

20 that have officially been adopted by the City in

21 consideration of the use variance. That is more of

22 an informational point that there is a neighborhood

23 plan that's been developed and updated. Because that

24 plan was 2005 so we're now 13 years past.

25 The issue is that there has been some --

99

1 there's some community meetings that are going to

2 occur; some meetings with some city officials that

3 will be scheduled for a public hearing with the

4 Planning Board and adopted at that time. We can't

5 really in the context of the use variance for the

6 Board, I can't really use that as information.

7 MS. MOORE: Ma'am ---

8 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: So we can table this

9 here.

10 MS. MOORE: So ma'am, the plans are then

11 reviewed against the approved documents. So right

12 now if the approved documents are 2005, that's what

13 we use for all of our guidelines for the review. The

14 fact that they're in discussions for another plan,

15 that and whenever it gets approved by City Council,

16 any project from that point on would have to use that

17 document.

18 MS. REILLY: So it's grandfathered in to

19 that 2005 almost like kind of?

20 MS. MOORE: It overrules.

21 MS. REILLY: Okay. So then it's a new

22 plan? Right.

23 MS. MOORE: But right now you're based on

24 the review and everything is on the 2005.

25 MS. REILLY: Okay. My second question

100

1 goes to basically, is the plan that they had because

2 I know they do have a plan because the 2005 plan is

3 available on the website. Will this plan and when

4 will this plan be available on the website for

5 community residents? And also keep in mind that a

6 lot of our residents are seniors. They're not savvy

7 on the computers. And I notice that basically when

8 we were discussing about the meeting, I know my

9 mother's in Parkside.

10 We have been to meetings before at your

11 facility, but we didn't get communication for that

12 particular meeting that which you were questioned

13 about, that you were talking about. So I do think

14 that there needs to be a way that information is

15 disseminated in the community a little bit more, a

16 little bit proper. But going back to my question,

17 when will this plan be available on the website?

18 MS. PHIFER: The plan can be available.

19 It's on the website now. It's available through our

20 Facebook Page; through our social media site.

21 MS. REILLY: Because I went on your

22 website and the plan is not on your website. It's

23 available.

24 MS. PHIFER: Well, go to our Facebook

25 page and/or just let me make sure I get your email

101

1 before we leave and it will arrive.

2 MS. REILLY: Well, it should be available

3 for everybody. If it's available on your Facebook

4 page, not everybody has social media. So how can we

5 make this plan just a little bit more convenient for

6 our seniors?

7 MS. MOORE: Excuse me, ma'am. You're

8 asking about the new plan that they're discussing?

9 MS. PHIFER: 2017.

10 MS. REILLY: Yes, ma'am. I'm sorry.

11 MS. PHIFER: So it is Facebook; whatever

12 site for our new plan.

13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I didn't hear it.

14 MS. PHIFER: We'll make sure it gets out

15 there. I'm hearing it loud and clear.

16 MS. REILLY: Okay. Also, for the land

17 use considering the Haddon Avenue right next to

18 Fayer's. That particular development, I couldn't

19 hear too well because it was a lot of talking. But

20 your plans for that land use to build single family

21 dwellings or apartment buildings? What is your plan?

22 MS. PHIFER: It will be residential

23 apartments.

24 MS. REILLY: Residential apartment

25 buildings?

102

1 MS. PHIFER: Yes.

2 MS. REILLY: In the midst of a

3 residential area where there are homes?

4 MS. PHIFER: Yes. So it's adjacent. So

5 there's Fayer's. There's a vacant lot and then there

6 are commercial properties there.

7 MS. REILLY: Now, how is that legal when

8 you're building an apartment building in the middle

9 of a residential area? Let me ask you this. Are

10 these low housing? Are you low income?

11 MS. PHIFER: So the threshold --

12 (Audience yelling)

13 MR. EINGORN: Excuse me.

14 MS. PHIFER: The threshold that we're

15 seeking to use --

16 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: One at a time.

17 MS. PHIFER: -- is a 60 to 80 percent of

18 the median income. So that's low income. Low income

19 ranges from 30 to 50 percent. So we're talking about

20 moderate income; working families or individuals.

21 MS. REILLY: Mind you that most of the

22 residents that are in that area, have been there for

23 over 40 and 60 years. But mostly seniors like my

24 mother. So you're talking about bringing -- doing an

25 apartment building in a middle of a residential area

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1 that basically you rent to different people. Do you

2 plan on parking because there's limited parking

3 there?

4 MS. PHIFER: There will be parking

5 provided at the site. So there's off-street parking.

6 MS. REILLY: I don't see how --

7 MS. PHIFER: So we have to have the

8 architect walk you through the visuals for it. Like

9 very often I don't see it either. But there is

10 parking that would be included at that site.

11 MS. REILLY: Well, I'm going to turn the

12 microphone over to someone else. I don't want to

13 dominate the time. I'll talk to you personally. But

14 I just don't see legally how you can put an apartment

15 building in the middle of a residential area. I just

16 don't --

17 MS. MOORE: Excuse me. That's why

18 they're here now --

19 MS. PHIFER: That's why we're here.

20 MS. MOORE: -- for the use variance. For

21 that particular reason is why they're here for the

22 use variance.

23 MS. ABED: Just to be clear.

24 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Hold up. Keep the

25 noise down. I heard what you said right there.

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1 That's why we're here like you said, your mother

2 lives there and whatever. Right? What I can see

3 about talking, both sides, information was not right.

4 You didn't get nothing; your mother didn't get

5 nothing. We need to have a meeting for both sides.

6 That's what you need to do. Okay? Because I

7 understand what you're saying, trying to put an

8 apartment building --

9 MS. REILLY: Apartment building, yeah.

10 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I understand what

11 you're saying. I want to make sure and I'll call

12 down tomorrow and make sure that they have a

13 microphone here next time.

14 MS. REILLY: Thank you, sir.

15 MS. NEAL: Good evening, Board. My name

16 is Vida Neal, 224 S. 27th Street, Camden, New Jersey.

17 I'm a Camden resident. My problem is that the City

18 of Camden is moving away from affordable housing.

19 Now, whether you guys know it or not, Pennrose and

20 Michaels, these contractors come into our

21 communities, and let me give you an example, Faison

22 Mews, Camden Acres Apartments, what do they call it

23 over there, Antioch Manor, all these places do not

24 have ceiling rents that's for seniors.

25 What they do is, they move the seniors

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1 in, your rent might be $580 when you move in and it

2 goes up three percent every year. Now, I got people

3 like Mr. Driggers that used to live at Fasion Mews

4 and other seniors and within a four-year period,

5 their rent went up from $600 to $875. There is no

6 place in Camden that has senior rents for us seniors

7 other than Camden Housing Authority, the few units

8 that they have. Okay? Don't tell me. I've been a

9 housing advocate for a long time.

10 I'm going to tell you like this here.

11 I'm just going to say this here, we're having --

12 we're moving out of the affordable housing,

13 low-income housing and moving into affordable

14 housing. And the difference between low-income

15 housing and affordable housing is, A, affordable

16 housing wants to check your credit. Affordable

17 housing wants to make sure that you can make the rent

18 in two weeks. The guidelines for affordable housing

19 is not for the poor.

20 So bringing this in here and the lottery

21 got picked, we already got Fasion Mews; we already

22 got Pennrose and got the apartments down in Fairview

23 Square. We already got Antioch Manor. We already

24 got Tamarack Station Apartments taking advantage of

25 our seniors and the community residents. There's no

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1 way if you move in a place for $580 and then within

2 four years, you're almost up to $1,000. And this is

3 more of these people coming into our community.

4 Thank you.

5 MR. FRAISER: Gary Fraiser, 2431 Denfield

6 Avenue, Camden. So, one, what is being brought

7 before this Board is a 2005 plan. Here we are 13

8 years later a plan being brought before your Board to

9 convince you to look at a bunch of paperwork right

10 now and to vote on something without your full

11 knowledge and scope of what's going on.

12 Are you aware of the laws regarding an

13 apartment complex in a residential area? That would

14 be No. 1 because I would certainly open a lawsuit on

15 their ass's if they do it. No. 2, what measures are

16 being taken to insure the protection for a safe

17 environment? We're already tearing down Camden High

18 in the Parkside area. We're already looking at a

19 congested school year coming into the 2018/2019

20 school year. What's going to happen to those

21 children who will be traveling to and from school?

22 How will that impact those residents? How will it

23 impact our seniors out there, who live out there?

24 What's the cost of this plan?

25 Again, can anybody answer what's the

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1 total amount that this project will cost? I think

2 that's important to know. And I want some answers

3 before I leave here. What partnership does PBCIP

4 have other than PBCIP? Cause it's apparent to me

5 that there seems to be an issue with Gateway and also

6 with Whitman Park. You struck the nail on the head

7 when you said there needs to be a meeting between the

8 two sides. So if that's the case, then how can these

9 presenters or these applicants ask you to vote on

10 anything tonight? This would have to go before City

11 Council for a final approval, but it's coming before

12 you first, right?

13 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Not City Council.

14 MS. MOORE: This is for the use, right.

15 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Use variance.

16 MR. FRAISER: For the use variance.

17 Okay. Cool.

18 MS. MOORE: And site plan approval.

19 MR. FRAISER: And site plan.

20 MS. MOORE: Tonight.

21 MR. FRAISER: Tonight. So but at some

22 point, something will have to be brought before City

23 Council?

24 MS. MOORE: No.

25 MR. FRAISER: In that case then, it won't

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1 go through City Council then I guess -- I'm thinking

2 that something would have to go through City Council

3 for final approval. City Council will have to sign

4 off on this at some point. And if you're not privy

5 to that then something's going on up here.

6 However, to you the Chair, I would ask

7 you to consider heavily before even any of you on

8 this Board, before even thinking about voting on this

9 plan. It seems to be something that's being laid out

10 into our community that's going to continue to affect

11 the Parkside area of the City. And we have children

12 who travel to and from in those areas.

13 We already don't have enough police to

14 man our streets. Okay? To save corridors in our

15 City is still not implemented in our City. So when

16 you talk about these areas where you're going to be

17 doing this heavy work in our City, I think you need

18 to consider those children who will be going to ECDC

19 Forest Hill and any other school in that Parkside

20 area.

21 My final question would be, you said that

22 is going to be for moderate income. And so my thing

23 would be, Parkside business community always

24 functions to rehab homes to make it affordable for

25 low-income families or families to be able to be in

109

1 those homes. So I would ask, why aren't we doing the

2 same things with these homes that we're talking about

3 doing? Making sure that they are affordable for our

4 residents to be able to own as opposed to renting.

5 Is this some sort of plan? Because we

6 don't have a tax base in our City to bring in

7 residents who might not necessarily be of our color

8 or who might not necessarily live here to be able to

9 be in those houses to build up a tax base for

10 businesses who have already come into this City who

11 have gotten abatements, 20, 30 year abatements who

12 will probably be here and then you know at some point

13 when their abatements run out, they'll be leaving us

14 with the shells.

15 MS. MOORE: I did two things for some of

16 the things you just mentioned. The Municipal Land

17 Use Law will dictate the fact that this application

18 will stay with the Zoning Board for both the use and

19 the site plan. We will sign off. I particularly

20 will be -- I would sign off on the plans, not City

21 Council. So you know, Municipal Land Use Law. If

22 you Google that --

23 MR. FRAISER: No, no. It's cool, it's

24 cool.

25 MS. MOORE: And then some of the issues

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1 that you brought up regarding schools and all of

2 that. The City has a Community Impact Assessment in

3 which we are requiring under the site work approval

4 process or a portion of the projet, we're asking that

5 the applicant provide a Community Impact Assessment

6 in which according to the ordinance section 577-273,

7 that specifies some of the things that you mention

8 about schools. So that's a separate section.

9 MR. FRAISER: So what about the cost?

10 MS. MOORE: The cost is mentioned in the

11 Community Impact Assessment. I don't know if the

12 applicant wants to. I don't know. But the applicant

13 wants to express to you about the cost.

14 MR. GIGLIOTTI: The cost is a little over

15 12 million. And the intent of the project is to

16 renew this for the residents and for the workforce

17 area. When we're looking at housing options, it's

18 for all incomes.

19 MR. FRAISER: I got that. See, there's

20 the part where I become confused at. You talked

21 about this historic building right here. Are you

22 talking about --

23 MR. EINGORN: Let the record reflect that

24 he's talking about A2.

25 MR. FRAISER: -- taking those two

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1 apartments down and building this from the ground up

2 or are you just going to be renovating these

3 apartments?

4 MR. GIGLIOTTI: So the answer to your

5 question on Haddon Avenue, we're doing an adaptive.

6 And that's not Haddon Avenue. That's --

7 MR. FRAISER: I know. This is Princess

8 and this is Kenwood.

9 MR. GIGLIOTTI: Right. So they're

10 building newly constructed. And then there's another

11 unit that will be rehabbed that's vacant and blighted

12 and we're going to rehab that unit. There's six

13 units in the Kenwood/Princess Avenue areas. Five of

14 them will be new construction. And so the intent of

15 that is to create opportunities to renew the

16 neighborhood there so that we can come back and then

17 do sales housing. But we need to get it started and

18 we want to create scale where we can on Princess and

19 Kenwood, so that we can then follow-up with

20 additional housing that will meet the needs of the

21 residents and the workforce.

22 On Haddon Avenue, the building on the

23 corner on Haddon and Euclid, that's two stories right

24 now and that's the good news, so we'll upgrade and

25 build units on the first two floors and some

112

1 commercial on the first two floors. Then we're going

2 to go up two floors higher and do four stories and

3 that will be residential. And, again, that will be

4 mixed income for low income, mid-income and incomes

5 up to 80 percent.

6 But we're meeting all income levels

7 because we don't want to displace or we don't want to

8 create gentrification. We want to meet the needs of

9 the residents. And we want to create a sustainable

10 plan that would really catalyze more development down

11 Haddon Avenue and also within the neighborhood.

12 So on the corner there, we might create a really

13 great iconic building that will really look great.

14 So the next step is that we're going to have design

15 ideas with the community and we're going to get your

16 input into it. We know that the materials are going

17 to be great. But we're going to share with you the

18 materials, floor plans and get your input on the

19 materials and floor plans so that it meets your

20 needs.

21 MR. FRAISER: My final thing. So you

22 looked at the area of Parkside. You said you're

23 going to be servicing all families of all kinds. Did

24 you happen to notice that we have a spot where

25 pedophiles are at within the Parkside area? How will

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1 you entertain that particular area to insure safety

2 for the target population that you seek?

3 MR. GIGLIOTTI: So this first component

4 is 44 units; 42 at Parkside and 2 in Whitman Park.

5 But then we also are addressing crime, blight,

6 safety. And we're doing that in conjunction with the

7 police force. For example, in this building, we are

8 seeing if the police will entertain having a warming

9 station or police substation there that we can really

10 start creating some security and safety on the corner

11 there and let it continue through Parkside. But if

12 there's crime problems, we love to hear about where

13 they are and see what we can do to eradicate that and

14 maybe tear down a blighted building.

15 MR. FRAISER: I think the person, the

16 applicant that's coming forward, should have told you

17 that, that we do have people that are housing in

18 certain parts of Parkside, for pedophiles. We get

19 the notices in our mail. So that would be a concern

20 to me to say, okay, you guys are going to come in

21 here and do this building here and you have to take

22 into consideration of the target population that you

23 intend to target couldn't necessarily be children.

24 MR. GIGLIOTTI: So in this first section,

25 the apartments are geared mostly to workforce, one

114

1 and two bedrooms. And also in answer to your

2 question, we're also trying to work with Lourdes Life

3 and Sister Maris, to do senior units and Adult Day

4 Life Services through Our Lady of Lourdes to meet the

5 needs of the community.

6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: But there is a

7 adult daycare center on Haddon Avenue.

8 MR. GIGLIOTTI: And we're also working

9 with Stars. And we want to engage all the community

10 and use all of them to really enhance services to

11 seniors, create a place plan for seniors and to

12 create opportunities for them. If they're home

13 bound, it can be modernized or they need to move to

14 another home. We'd like to provide those new choices

15 for them.

16 MS. MOORE: Excuse me.

17 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: You're taking too

18 much time.

19 MS. MOORE: If we can limit the questions

20 to use so we can really get through the site portion.

21 MR. FRAISER: We would like to hear his

22 response.

23 MS. MOORE: Then you know what -- well,

24 me personally, I was trying to respond to you

25 because I want to get something -- I want to get

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1 clarity for the whole room so that's why. So I'll

2 limit my responses and we'll try to limit our

3 responses.

4 MR. GIGLIOTTI: I'm sorry. I'm not

5 following the protocol which I should. But really my

6 heart is really with you guys and I want to hear what

7 your needs are. So we're open to working with you

8 and planning with you on this and future work that

9 we're working on.

10 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please come forward

11 to be sworn. Please raise your right hand.

12 - - -

13 CLIFF CARTER, GLORIA SMITH, OSCAR

14 SPENCER, having been first duly sworn/affirmed, was

15 examined and testified as follows:

16 - - -

17 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please state your

18 full name and address for the record.

19 MR. CARTER: My name is Cliff Carter,

20 1498 Princess Avenue.

21 MS. SMITH: Gloria Smith, 1531 Baird

22 Blvd., Camden, New Jersey.

23 MR. SPENCER: Oscar Spencer, 1442 Haddon

24 Avenue.

25 MR. CARTER: This gentleman over here

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1 mentioned the word gentrification because that's

2 what's going on in our area. Most of us here,

3 longstanding residents of Camden, have been through

4 it thick and thin. And we welcome the change. We

5 want to see a change come about. We just want to be

6 included in the change. So we don't want to be

7 forced out when these changes happen.

8 When I say forced out, I mean by way of

9 higher taxes. All of this sounds good on paper. But

10 once the taxes and stuff start going up, we got

11 forced out. A lot of these seniors are on fixed

12 incomes. They can't afford when they go so high. So

13 who on this panel in this room can tell us with these

14 changes, that we're not going to be forced out for

15 another race or class of people?

16 The word affordable has been used a lot

17 here tonight. Right? So affordable who? Affordable

18 for what class of people? All right? So are we

19 going to be able to afford to still stay here and

20 remain here? Because all these changes that have

21 been coming about and I've been seeing it with

22 colleges, Sixers, HOTEK. All this stuff has been

23 happening. I don't see none of these residents in

24 Camden has been working in these places, getting jobs

25 in these places. We just want to know. We welcome

117

1 the changes but are we going to be able to stay here?

2 That's what I'm saying.

3 MS. SMITH: Good evening. My name is

4 Gloria Smith. You know, I've come to Planning Boards

5 and I've come to Planning Boards where they're

6 bringing in all kinds of toxins and things that are

7 very detrimental to our community. And yet, every

8 time I come to a development meeting, there's a lot

9 of protests. None of us want to put our children in

10 jeopardy. But those vacant properties put our

11 children in jeopardy.

12 None of us want to live in an area where

13 the taxes are going to be raised. That's why we have

14 an organization here call PBCIP. Attend. And if

15 you're attending because you're getting information,

16 let us figure out how to serve you. But we need to

17 figure out how we work in this City together. One of

18 reasons why this City doesn't work is because we

19 don't it. And just as this gentleman said earlier,

20 we're busy fighting each other instead of trying to

21 figure out how we can fix this damn thing.

22 So one of the things that I'd like to do

23 is for us to listen to the plan, get together, come

24 together and we can talk about the tax increase.

25 Let's vote. Let's become more of a community. Thank

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1 you very much.

2 MR. SPENCER: Oscar Spencer, 1442 Haddon

3 Avenue. I've been on Haddon Avenue since 1968 both

4 ends. Seen buildings where there's no buildings

5 now. Seen businesses where there are no businesses

6 now. Seen everything that we're talking about coming

7 up, seen them go down. Seen them go from all the way

8 down by Donkin Donuts to all the way up. Seen them

9 go up -- seen them up; seen them down. So when we

10 have construction as the lady before me said, why are

11 we fighting construction? We have an apartment

12 building right now across from where some of the

13 folks here that have just spoken, are at right now.

14 So we not complaining about them. There's nothing

15 wrong with

16 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Well, you --

17 MR. SPENCER: Now, that's the problem.

18 Folks got to know order. When someone's speaking,

19 they need to listen. They need to listen. That's

20 the way we conduct meetings. We conduct meetings

21 with the Chair chairing the meeting and the folks are

22 too longwinded and the Chair is sitting people down.

23 All I want to say is, construction is

24 good. Seen all those buildings that were there every

25 store in every location. Now they are down. So now

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1 we're going to bring them up and bring some people

2 in. Some things are going to happen. We may not

3 like it but it's always good to have something than

4 nothing.

5 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Anybody else coming

6 up? This is the last call. Please come forward to

7 be sworn. Please raise your right hand.

8 - - -

9 ALI SLOAN EL, having been first duly

10 sworn/affirmed, was examined and testified as

11 follows:

12 - - -

13 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please state your

14 full name and address for the record.

15 MR. SLOAN EL: My name is Ali Sloan El,

16 1242 Lakeshore Drive. I'm here to be a supporter of

17 Parkside Business and Partnership. Always been

18 that. For my years at Whitman, I was at 1298 Chase

19 Street, United Neighbors of Whitman Park. We have a

20 development in Whitman Park that's New Life

21 Development Corporation. Ms. Maddy is here speaking

22 on behalf of Pastor Green, the late Ron Green, former

23 late Ron Green. Ron Green's vision was to do home

24 ownership on Whitman Park. That was his vision.

25 Those who live in Whitman Park know that.

120

1 He was the executive director of United Neighbors.

2 Also, he was executive director of New Life. He

3 passed. The commitment from the officials was that's

4 what we're going to do in Whitman Park. Now when you

5 don't talk to us, when you speak and say things,

6 well, yeah I attend the meeting. But I never knew

7 about these guys. I never knew about the plan. We

8 can sit down and we need to come together. The man

9 said that on the phone to me. He said we all across

10 the board at Parkside, Gateway, Whitman Park, need to

11 sit down. And if that do not happen, Ali, if you

12 don't get a phone call, and I received a phone call

13 from Bridget. We sat at Corrine's but we never

14 talked about this plan. We never talked about

15 rentals.

16 We do not appreciate people saying that

17 we sat down two years ago. You did a plan in 2005.

18 We in 2018. Now, these individuals come in. They

19 come into your community. They want to make money.

20 And they are going to put their position on the

21 community. Bridget said the Parkside residents met.

22 I didn't hear no Whitman Park residents met. I

23 didn't hear no Gateway residents met because they're

24 coming to get you Gateway next.

25 So I implore the Board that we got to get

121

1 together first before you do any voting on anything.

2 She even said it. Let us talk; let us work it; let

3 us come as one. And we can do that. But don't

4 insinuate that you talk to me and said something at

5 the meeting. I attended the meeting the other day.

6 I was appalled when I found out these individuals are

7 standing there promoting something for Whitman park.

8 We don't have a plan. Our plan and that was said to

9 me, our plan is not to let you come across that

10 border to do rentals. We want home ownership.

11 Eighty percent of the population there, they rent.

12 Eighty percent of the population of Parkside, they're

13 all homeowners. So we want home ownership. I'll be

14 back.

15 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please come forward

16 to be sworn. Please raise your right hand.

17 - - -

18 RASHON MORES, having been first duly

19 sworn/affirmed, was examined and testified as

20 follows:

21 - - -

22 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please state your

23 full name and address for the record.

24 MR. MORES: Rashon Mores, Parkside

25 resident, 1023 Kenwood Avenue. I'm here as

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1 representing, as the president of the Haddon Avenue

2 Business Association. I'm definitely in favor of

3 having a sit down with the Whitman Park neighborhood.

4 But as a Parkside resident, born and raised, I was

5 born and raised in Parkside. My whole family was

6 born and raised in Parkside. Right now I think

7 there's something that needs to be done in Parkside

8 and throughout the whole City. We have a lot of drug

9 activity. We have a lot of young kids joining gangs.

10 We have a lot of broken homes right now in the City.

11 So we actually need some revitalization right now.

12 We're trying to do some big things on Haddon Avenue

13 to improve the corridor.

14 We're actually working to try to bring in

15 businesses from outside of the community that really

16 have no interest in actually coming in and building

17 up the community. So my suggestion was to actually

18 work with homeowners that are home grown from the

19 City, invest in those homeowners or business owners

20 and try to revitalize the community from the inside

21 out instead of from the outside in. And right now,

22 I'm currently a business owner on Haddon Avenue.

23 Just to give you a little story.

24 Yesterday I was actually at my business and I heard

25 some commotion outside. A lady was outside trying to

123

1 take some clothes from another woman. Both looked

2 like to be drug addicts. Actually, one lady had

3 actually went to the bathroom on herself while she

4 was in the middle of Haddon Avenue on front of my

5 business wiping herself. Right now we have a big

6 drug problem. We have a lot of things going on and

7 we need some things. This is not the example our

8 children should see.

9 This is not -- if I had customers in my

10 business, or how could I explain that to a customer

11 as a business owner. It doesn't go on in downtown

12 Camden. It doesn't go on in certain areas in the

13 community. We don't want that in Parkside and the

14 same, we don't want it in Whitman Park. I'm a

15 homeowner in Parkside. I believe in home ownership

16 because homeowners to me take better care of their

17 property.

18 And in terms of having affordable

19 housing, I think having rental properties that

20 actually attracts a different class of people is what

21 we actually want here. Everybody doesn't want to be

22 a homeowner. Everybody is -- it's like every kid

23 doesn't want to go to college. Some people are

24 business owners. People have different paths.

25 So I think we should have a mixture of both here.

124

1 Currently there are apartment complexes right in

2 Parkside, right on Park Blvd. and Magnolia Avenue.

3 There's a huge apartment complex right there right

4 now. But I just think some people need a starting

5 block. Some people need a stepping stone.

6 So if I first start off in an apartment,

7 I may eventually want to graduate to a PBCIP house

8 and become a homeowner. And that option should be

9 available. Even in terms of the big corporations

10 that are coming here, I'm all for that. Because as a

11 father, I have six year old twins. And what I'm

12 going to do is, I'm going to make sure my kids can

13 get a quality education here in the City. And if

14 they can come right back here and work in their own

15 backyard, I think that's a great thing. So what we

16 should be doing is structuring our curriculum,

17 working with the school board to make sure our

18 children are the future leaders, the future CEO's and

19 CFO's of these companies here.

20 So what I want to do is, I think it

21 starts from the inside out. So as a community and to

22 work together, we're here to plan out before we

23 totally disregard the plan. I think we totally kind

24 of put the cart before the horse a lot of times. I

25 think we should hear it out, have maybe some

125

1 sit-downs like Councilman Ali Sloan El said and

2 Bridget said, come together because I don't think

3 it's something that can be done. I think together we

4 can make a real big impact here, but I don't think

5 it's going to be done by us bickering and fighting at

6 each other here. And it's always about, you know,

7 this person or that person, different clicks here.

8 We need to get rid of that here.

9 Everybody here has good points. And I

10 don't think anybody here is trying to cut-out

11 anybody. But I think it just takes a conversation

12 for us to sit down, have a medium to meet there. But

13 I definitely think this is a good option, this is a

14 good benefit. Because like the lady said, we have

15 vacant lots. We have abandoned buildings. That's

16 the blight. So people who are riding up and down

17 Haddon Avenue, there's nothing attractive about that.

18 People don't want to pull over. We have a lot of

19 leakage in the City.

20 Every day downtown out of 100 percent of

21 people that work downtown, only two percent actually

22 live in the City. Out of the students that go to

23 school here everyday, only seven percent live here in

24 the City. So 93 percent come here and get an

25 education and leave. Ninety-eight percent of those

126

1 people that work downtown, come in, make money and

2 they leave. So the City residents aren't getting any

3 benefit from that and there's nothing attractive

4 about that. We have over 160,000 people that go to

5 the Transportation Center every single month. How

6 are we not tapping into any of that income? It's

7 because the residents aren't invested as African

8 Americans here. We really don't own a lot of things

9 here in the community. That has to change.

10 In order for us to make a stake and have

11 the ability to call the shots in our community, we

12 have to own something here. And African American

13 ownership is very -- I know when I was a kid, there

14 was a lot of African American home businesses and

15 ownership in Parkside and all up and down Haddon

16 Avenue. I went to Mr. Ernie's every morning before I

17 went to school in Forest Hills. We need to get back

18 to that.

19 We have 12,000 unemployed people. We

20 need to give people some jobs. And the only way

21 we're going to do that is through entrepreneurship,

22 new buildings and industry and putting people to

23 work. We have 12,000 unemployed people and we have

24 41,000 of those people. So 25 percent of our

25 population is unemployed right now. So we need to do

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1 something right now. And I think home ownership,

2 revitalizing that corridor on both sides, Whitman

3 Park and Haddon Avenue and Gateway is very vital to

4 that mission and I just think we need to have a

5 sit-down and I think us coming together can actually

6 accomplish some good things. Thank you.

7 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please come forward

8 to be sworn. Please raise your right hand.

9 - - -

10 REVEREND WILLIE L. ANDERSON, having been

11 first duly sworn/affirmed, was examined and testified

12 as follows:

13 - - -

14 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please state your

15 full name and address for the record.

16 REVEREND ANDERSON: My name is Willie

17 Anderson. I'm pastor of the Sword of the Spirit

18 Christian Center. We're in the Gateway area of

19 Camden. We've been there for 30 years. We control

20 quite a bit of property. But tonight I'm here to

21 represent the Oasis Development Corporation which is

22 a non-profit developer, housing developer here in the

23 City. We have done projects here in the City and the

24 Gateway area. And we did affordable housing. Not

25 necessarily low income but affordable housing, and

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1 it's very successful. All of our houses sold.

2 What I'm here for is, I was hearing talk

3 from Ms. Phifer of a redevelopment plan. We in the

4 Gateway area also worked on a redevelopment plan with

5 the Gateway residents and we had it approved around

6 that same time. And in that plan, the City accepted

7 that plan and ratified it. And as a matter of fact,

8 Oasis Development Corporation is named in that plan

9 as a housing developer in the Gateway area. Now this

10 plan that's being considered now, we just got a copy

11 of it maybe three or four weeks ago. And this plan

12 totally ignores Gateway residents, Gateway developers

13 such as ourselves. We knew nothing about it.

14 And the plan, the footprint of the plan

15 encroaches severely into Gateway. I have no issue

16 what people do in Parkside for their community. God

17 bless them. I hope they do rebuild their community.

18 But we're talking about the Gateway neighborhood.

19 And this plan, even though they're working from the

20 other end, I see here where it says, proposal for the

21 first phase of development. If this is the same

22 plan, we'll be back because this plan encroaches

23 severely into the Gateway community. And no one from

24 Parkside, PBCIP or whatever, approached us, invited

25 us to a meeting.

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1 As a matter of fact, we set one meeting

2 with Ms. Phifer and she didn't show or even called us

3 to tell us that she wasn't going to show. So we're

4 just here to say, this plan as it goes, where it

5 encroaches is to Gateway. It's not right. We have a

6 redevelopment plan that the people, the citizens of

7 Gateway want it and the City approved it. We are now

8 even talking to our Councilman Coleman and some

9 people in the City. We've gotten properties

10 demolished by the City so that we can do more

11 housing. They demolished those properties for us and

12 we're working to do more projects.

13 But we want to do in Gateway what the

14 Gateway residents want and we would appreciate it

15 that the Parkside residents do what the Parkside

16 residents want. So we have a plan as well. We don't

17 think that their plans suggest overriding our plan.

18 We saw the plan proposed where they just want to just

19 write us off, write us out like we don't even exist.

20 And we oppose that. We'll be opposing it if it gets

21 to the Planning Board. We'll be opposing it if gets

22 to the City Council. But we would really appreciate

23 it if it stops here because it's not fair. Nobody

24 has reached out to us about this. And they want to

25 plan what we do at Gateway. We can do our own

130

1 planning over there. We are qualified and we are a

2 registered nonprofit developer. We can do our own.

3 Thank you.

4 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please come forward

5 to be sworn. Please raise your right hand.

6 - - -

7 TOWANDA JONES, having been first duly

8 sworn/affirmed, was examined and testified as

9 follows:

10 - - -

11 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please state your

12 full name and address for the record.

13 MS. JONES: My name is Towanda Jones, a

14 resident of Camden for 45 years. I basically came

15 here for information and just be educated. I came

16 here to listen. Before I decide to turn the lights

17 out, I only ask that the plans that could possibly

18 enhance our community, could we try to figure out

19 some way to make sure that these properties don't sit

20 for another 15 years. I'm all down for a sit-down

21 because I think the division is ridiculous. So I'm

22 not on either side. I'm just wondering what is the

23 plan so that it doesn't sit another 15 years. That's

24 all I got to say.

25 MR. EINGORN: Thank you.

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1 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please come forward

2 to be sworn. Please raise your right hand.

3 - - -

4 AGIA RIGGS, having been first duly

5 sworn/affirmed, was examined and testified as

6 follows:

7 - - -

8 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please state your

9 full name and address for the record.

10 MS. RIGGS: My name is Agina Riggs.

11 I live at 1250 Haddon Avenue. I've lived in Camden

12 for going on five years now. I think I have the

13 unique experience with coming -- being born and

14 raised in New York City and coming to a city like

15 Camden. And one of the things that I think is

16 beneficial to my experience is that you get to have

17 new eyes. You're someone coming from somewhere else

18 and you could see Camden the way I think it is, which

19 I think is beautiful.

20 When I first moved here, I remember

21 speaking to my girlfriends about moving here. And I

22 asked them to describe Camden for me. One of my

23 friends has a summer home in Delaware and she said,

24 well, it's like going into color and all of a sudden

25 it turns black and white. Because that's the

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1 perception outside of here people have. They don't

2 know that the City has educated individuals who take

3 care of their homes. They don't know -- they may

4 know but they're not going to use that narrative to

5 describe Camden, because it makes people more

6 comfortable to feel that there's another place that's

7 doing less -- that's not doing as well as they are.

8 And I think what tends to happen is, when

9 we get into these meetings and we start doing the

10 outbursts and we start arguing in-house with each

11 other, nothing gets done. Nothing gets done.

12 Regardless of what people want, home buyers, they

13 want tenants, moderate tenants, whatever the case is,

14 we don't have a City just full of poor people. The

15 City is very diverse. The City believes in

16 education. We can just look at Rutgers. We can look

17 at our young babies graduating in the schools they're

18 getting accepted to. We have a huge population of

19 intelligent people who fit the mode of what we

20 consider moderate income and the mode as far as home

21 buyers.

22 I think the solution is based on the fact

23 that if we come to the table without our emotional

24 baggage, we come to the table and we just take a

25 minute to listen because this is what always happens.

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1 We start fighting. We do our lives. We go out and

2 do this other stuff and at the same time, we don't

3 talk to each other to get things done. Again, I say

4 I have the unique experience. I'm not from here so I

5 respect. But I was fortunate enough to be born

6 into -- I mean, to be married into a legacy. My

7 husband's grandmother was Jerrothia Riggs. What her

8 whole experience was, she's a long-time Parkside

9 resident. And I speak to my father-in-law everyday

10 who is her oldest son.

11 And the one thing that she was for, was

12 for all of us to enhance our lives with opportunities

13 that weren't available years ago and to fill our

14 communities with things that weren't available years

15 ago. We have a lot of work to do. I was telling

16 Towanda, I said, this is to me like Harlem 89. And

17 you see what happened when Clinton came. So I'm not

18 for gentrification either but I am for us working

19 together to make solutions so someone else is not

20 making the solution for us. Thank you.

21 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: It's closed to the

22 public.

23 MR. FLOYD: I just wanted to correct one

24 thing for the record or clarify one thing. In my

25 opening statement I mentioned that we were applying

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1 for use variance approval, bulk variance approval and

2 preliminary site plan approval. And just for the

3 benefit of people in the audience, we are only

4 seeking what's known as a preliminary site plan

5 approval. That does not give the applicant any

6 rights whatsoever to put a shovel in the ground and

7 build these new units.

8 They have to come back to this Board a

9 second time for what's known as final site plan

10 approval. They also have to go to the Camden County

11 Planning Board to get site plan approval because they

12 front on Haddon Avenue which is a county roadway. So

13 this is one step in the process. And I have been

14 speaking with Mr. Gigliotti regarding it and he would

15 agree as a condition of any approval, to meet with

16 all of the relevant community groups, including

17 Whitman Park --

18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you.

19 MR. FLOYD: -- to review the site plans

20 with the community.

21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Nothing.

22 MR. FLOYD: Regardless of what was done

23 or not done, Mr. Gigliotti will come up here. You

24 will agree --

25 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Nothing is

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1 regardless. You don't really tell us regardless

2 concerning our community. Our community is not a

3 regardless. And I know you said this is preliminary

4 but this is the first nail in the coffin for our

5 community. It's always you get that the first step.

6 And it needs to be stopped here before you spend or

7 take any more money out of the here. It needs to be

8 stopped here and we need to come to some kind of

9 agreement, civil agreement with the community, all of

10 the community, not just one community. We are not a

11 regardless community.

12 MR. FLOYD: I didn't mean to be

13 disrespectful.

14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I accept your

15 apology.

16 MR. GIGLIOTTI: If I can just make a

17 comment.

18 MS. MOORE: Please realize, at this point

19 we're only talking about the use. Okay?

20 MR. GIGLIOTTI: So there's a lot of

21 tension. We met for a year and a half with the

22 Parkside residents to create this. What we did was,

23 we had meetings once a month for a year. So if I can

24 just say one thing. We would love to collaborate

25 with the contiguous neighborhoods with Gateway, with

136

1 Whitman Park.

2 Because to make any of those communities

3 successful, they tie together and we need to bring

4 them together because they all share the same

5 services, the same corridor. There's so many things

6 we need to do together. The reason why we can't

7 table is -- we would like to proceed but we're not

8 asking for final approval and we would love to meet

9 with you and see what your needs are and what the

10 concerns are.

11 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I would like to

12 propose a vote but first I want to have a negative

13 and positive criteria.

14 MR. EINGORN: What Chairman Hamilton is

15 saying, he would like to vote on the use before we

16 get to the site plan. But in order to do that, you

17 have to discuss the positive and the negative

18 criteria for the record before a motion can be made

19 to approve or deny the application.

20 So for that end, there's going to be a

21 motion but you have to discuss the positive and

22 negative criteria and then somebody can make the

23 motion as to whether they're going to approve or deny

24 and then we'll vote on the use variance. To the

25 extent that that's granted, we'll move on to site

137

1 plan.

2 MR. COOPER: I think it will be a

3 positive if we all can get together and come to some

4 type of agreement on what's going to be done in these

5 neighborhoods. We have to take care of our blight

6 here in the City. That's first and foremost. We

7 have all these abandoned buildings and empty lots.

8 So it's coming up as cleaning these lots up. I think

9 it's a positive. But, again, until we get together

10 to come together with a solution, you know, we're

11 banging our heads.

12 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I think on a

13 negative and positive, I heard one of the residents

14 that got up and said that when they go out and get

15 these apartments, three and four apartments in there,

16 Parkside, and when they go there after two years or

17 whatever, the price goes up and you're pricing them

18 right out the door.

19 The other thing, if both of you's can get

20 together and sit down and talk and come back like

21 that. Okay? I don't know what the vote's going to

22 be. I'm just sayin' to you, we need to come

23 together. We need to come together. Not here

24 arguing with them. I sat back and watched, some of

25 them didn't even know that they had a meetin'. They

138

1 got upset. And when the attorneys came in, they

2 didn't even see them. Okay?

3 But when you have a meeting, you got to

4 get everybody, everybody, because we got homeowners.

5 They don't want people living along side the

6 apartments. Like they said before, it's the

7 homeowners that keeps their place up. I'm just

8 sayin' to you. We need to come together. That's

9 what we need to do. And right now tonight right

10 here, they ain't together. One side fighting this

11 side and that side fighting this side. Okay?

12 MS. WASHINGTON: To piggyback on what the

13 Chairman said, I think we should all get together and

14 talk about it because I live in Whitman Park and

15 I never heard of none of that stuff before. Never.

16 And like Ali said, you're bringing up something that

17 was in 2005. The whole half of the world don't

18 change since 2005. I'm not going to say nothin'

19 else. I'm not for it.

20 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Anymore?

21 MS. ABED: On positive and negative

22 criteria. Positive, obviously the development of any

23 abandoned and blighted buildings, any empty lots, we

24 always -- I prefer seeing them in use.

25 Negative is that we're obviously basing

139

1 everything off of a 2005 plan because that is what we

2 have to base it off of. That is the current

3 agreement that's in place that is approved by the

4 City of Camden. That is what is on, I believe,

5 before you -- you mentioned the 2005 plan is on the

6 redevelopment page of the website.

7 The negative is, the multi-family

8 apartment buildings is not in conformance with the

9 original ordinance. Rental versus purchasing the

10 home under how that -- the clause of which Ms. Moore

11 mentioned of how it's going to affect the neighboring

12 areas versus affordable and low income.

13 There is positive and negative on both

14 sides. I personally -- based off of what the

15 ordinance is, you'd have to really consider possibly

16 tabling this and letting them get together and

17 discussing and ironing all this out and then coming

18 back to us. Because we can't approve a use and then

19 come back to site plan. You know what I mean?

20 Without use there's no site plan. You guys can look

21 at it. It's a 15-page letter of things that they

22 have to address. It's a lot of things that we have

23 to address.

24 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Another thing, we

25 can't vote. If we vote then it goes down then you're

140

1 out of luck. So if you want to go back and get

2 together and bring it back.

3 MR. JORDAN: Yes.

4 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Get together.

5 MS. ATWOOD: Kyle, did you say we have to

6 vote on it?

7 MR. EINGORN: Is there something you want

8 to say?

9 MR. GIGLIOTTI: I think we would love the

10 opportunity to work with everyone to work through

11 what the problems are, but at the same time we have

12 an application to NJ HFMA that has to be made by July

13 24th. And we're not asking for final approval.

14 We're just asking for approval enough to make that

15 application so we can build this within the next year

16 after we meet with everyone.

17 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Can I get a motion?

18 MR. COOPER: I make a motion that I'm

19 going to deny.

20 MS. WASHINGTON: I second.

21 MR. EINGORN: We have a motion to deny

22 and second by Ms. Washington. I will take a roll

23 call. A reminder, a yes vote is a yes to deny the

24 application. Chairman Hamilton.

25 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Yes.

141

1 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Washington.

2 MS. WASHINGTON: Yes.

3 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Atwood.

4 MS. ATWOOD: Yes.

5 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Jordan.

6 MR. JORDAN: Yes.

7 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Merricks.

8 MS. MERRICKS: Yes.

9 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Cooper.

10 MR. COOPER: Yes.

11 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Abed.

12 MS. ABED: I abstain.

13 MR. EINGORN: I'm sorry. There's already

14 enough votes to deny the application.

15 MR. FLOYD: Thank you.

16 (Dena Moore leaves the meeting.)

17 MR. EINGORN: That concludes this

18 application. We do have one remaining application to

19 be done. So if you need to talk, please do it in the

20 hallway. Thank you.

21 The next application is Maria Diaz. Ms.

22 Diaz wants a gazebo. So if everybody could go in the

23 hallway and talk, that would be greatly appreciated.

24 We're back on the matter of Maria Diaz,

25 1220 North 34th Street. Again, Ms. Diaz is asking

142

1 for a gazebo, a wood gazebo. And she's going to be

2 put it three feet from the property line. We will

3 swear in the applicant.

4 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please come forward

5 to be sworn. Please raise your right hand.

6 - - -

7 MARIA DIAZ, having been first duly

8 sworn/affirmed, was examined and testified as

9 follows:

10 - - -

11 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Please state your

12 full name and address for the record.

13 MR. EINGORN: May we have the

14 interpreter's name and address for the record.

15 - - -

16 ERIUDO SANTIAGO, 420 North 34th Street,

17 Camden, New Jersey, having been first duly sworn to

18 accurately and truthfully translate the questions

19 propounded to the applicant from English into Spanish

20 and the answers given by the applicant from Spanish

21 into English.

22 - - -

23 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Diaz would like a

24 gazebo. Can you ask her to tell us about the gazebo

25 and what she's proposing.

143

1 MS. DIAZ: My family came from Nicaragua

2 and his family. So I want to make a barbecue for the

3 little boy and the family, and make happy times with

4 the family.

5 MR. EINGORN: So the issue is rear and

6 side setbacks. That means, she doesn't want to put

7 the gazebo too close to the neighbors. Can you tell

8 us about the neighbors?

9 MS. DIAZ: Okay. While I was in

10 Nicaragua somebody went over there and make the

11 construction and they gave me no permits to do that.

12 And I'm in Nicaragua and the family was worried and

13 lot of things happened. And I came right away, came

14 to see what happened in the yard.

15 MR. EINGORN: She already had the

16 gazebo?

17 MS. DIAZ: Yes.

18 MR. EINGORN: So it's up against the

19 fence and up against the house?

20 MS. DIAZ: Yeah, the fence and my house.

21 This thing is my house.

22 MS. WASHINGTON: That's from the

23 neighbor's?

24 MS. DIAZ: Between from the other house

25 and mine.

144

1 MS. WASHINGTON: Is that just three feet

2 from the neighbors?

3 MR. EINGORN: Are you proposing to move

4 three feet?

5 MS. DIAZ: Yes. Three feet.

6 MR. EINGORN: They are going to move it

7 over three feet? You're going to cut part of it

8 off?

9 MS. DIAZ: Yeah, cut if off and then move

10 it three feet.

11 MS. WASHINGTON: Where?

12 MR. EINGORN: No. The three feet over

13 here between the fence and the driveway.

14 MS. DIAZ: Move it three feet.

15 MR. EINGORN: Three feet away from the

16 fence?

17 MS. DIAZ: Yes. We cut it off and then

18 we going to move it.

19 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I think we need

20 pictures to see what you're saying.

21 MS. WASHINGTON: Color pictures.

22 MR. EINGORN: It's right here in --

23 MS. DIAZ: It's in the packet.

24 MR. EINGORN: They put this up and

25 they're going to move it this way into the driveway

145

1 three feet to help with the setback issue.

2 MS. DIAZ: I said I need a permit to do

3 that. I know I'm wrong and I'm going to pay whatever

4 but I already paid. OKay. I need a permit to move

5 it three feet to the fence. I know that the pole is

6 close to the fence. I want to move it three feet.

7 MR. EINGORN: Right. That's it.

8 MS. WASHINGTON: That's the one --

9 MR. EINGORN: No, no. This building

10 here.

11 MS. WASHINGTON: Oh, that's the gazebo?

12 MR. EIGNORN: Looks more like a carport

13 but they're calling it a gazebo.

14 MS. WASHINGTON: Okay.

15 MR. EINGORN: It's not your traditional

16 gazebo.

17 MS. ABED: So the carport is standing

18 existing? She's going to move it back three feet?

19 MR. EINGORN: From what I understand,

20 they hired a contractor. He did the work without

21 getting a permit and they have a setback issue. So

22 they're proposing --

23 MS. ABED: To move it back the 36 inches

24 or whatever.

25 MR. EINGORN: They'll move it three feet

146

1 to remediate the issue. That's why she's here

2 because she was denied the permit.

3 MR. COOPER: Because the fence --

4 MR. EINGORN: We give a variance so they

5 can get the permit.

6 MR. EINGORN: Do we have more questions?

7 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: She's here to get the

8 permit so she can move it over. Right.

9 MS. ATWOOD: Motion to approve.

10 MR. JORDAN: Second.

11 MR. EINGORN: Can we take a roll-call

12 vote to approve the variances? Motion to approve.

13 Chairman Hamilton.

14 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Yes.

15 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Washington.

16 MS. WASHINGTON: Yes.

17 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Atwood.

18 MS. ATWOOD: Yes.

19 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Jordan.

20 MR. JORDAN: Yes.

21 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Merricks.

22 MS. MERRICKS: Yes.

23 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Cooper.

24 MR. COOPER: Yes.

25 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Abed.

147

1 MS. ABED: Yes.

2 MR. EINGORN: Congratulations.

3 MS. DIAZ: Thank you everybody.

4 MR. EINGORN: The last matter for

5 tonight, Adoption of Resolutions from last month.

6 Those available to vote are Chairman Hamilton, Ms.

7 Atwood, Mr. Jordan, Mr. Cooper. The Resolutions are

8 as follows: Granting Use Variance Approval with the

9 condition that Use Variance expires with the

10 applicant for Saving Grace.

11 Granting Use Variance Approval and Site

12 Plan Waiver for Lucy Outreach Nonprofit.

13 Granting Use Variance Approval and Site

14 Plan Waiver for The Crab Stop, LLC, Timothy

15 Polijczuk.

16 Do I have a motion to adopt?

17 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I so move.

18 MR. COOPER: Second.

19 MR. EINGORN: I'll take a vote. Chairman

20 Hamilton.

21 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: Yes.

22 MR. EINGORN: Ms. Atwood.

23 MS. ATWOOD: Yes.

24 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Jordan.

25 MR. JORDAN: Yes.

148

1 MR. EINGORN: Mr. Cooper.

2 MR. COOPER: Yes.

3 MR. EINGORN: So adopted. We need a

4 motion to adjourn to August.

5 CHAIRMAN HAMILTON: I so move to adjourn.

6 MS. MERRICKS: Second.

7 MR. EINGORN: All in favor?

8 THE BOARD: Yays.

9 - - -

10 (*Meeting concluded at 8:39 p.m.*)

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1 CERTIFICATION

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3

4 I HEREBY CERTIFY that I am a Certified Court

5 Reporter and Notary Public.

6 I FURTHER CERTIFY that the witness was sworn

7 to testify to the truth.

8 I FURTHER CERTIFY that the foregoing is, to

9 the best of my ability, a true and accurate

10 transcript of the testimony taken stenographically by

11 me at the time, place, and date hereinbefore set

12 forth.

13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a relative,

14 employee, attorney or counsel to any of the

15 parties to the action, nor a relative or employee of

16 such attorney or counsel and that I am not

17 financially interested in the action.

18
_______________________
19 Regine A. Ervin, CCR
Certified Court Reporter
20 License #30XI000222200

21

22 (The foregoing certification of this transcript

23 does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any

24 means, unless under the direction, control and/or

25 supervision of the certifying reporter.)